Podcast Episode 74: Carla Ondrasik

Alison : Okay. I’m going to try to use this now. Try to do it.

Jean : Okay. What did we learn?

Alison : We learned to stop trying and use the life transforming power of trying less and doing more.

Jean : By Carla Ondrasik.

Alison : That’s right. And this is. I can’t wait to be interviewed by her, because it’s all about doing and being motivated and getting it done.

Jean : Yeah. And you know what, Allison… I do feel and know that you embody this already.

Alison : Really?

Jean : Do you think that?

Alison : I think I do do a lot. I think it drives people crazy sometimes. Just do it. Come on. Let’s just do it.

Jean :  You are. I feel you… You really have a that under your belt.

Alison : Really? Thank you. Thank you very much. I feel you do. You do a lot.

Jean : Well, I actually do notice from reading her book that I do use the word try. And I’m really grateful to Carla because I actually feel more a little more empowered.

Alison : Let’s try not to use the word.. Let’s just not use it. It’s odd how much it comes up.

Jean : True.

Alison : Right?

Jean : Yep.

Alison : Even just now I said it. So. Okay, well, here she is. I can’t wait to hear her.

Jean : Yes. Okay.

Alison : Uh, okay. Here she is.

Jean : Someone looks really gorgeous.

Alison : You look really good.

Carla: Hi, ladies.

Alison : Hi.

Carla: You know, it’s so funny, i don’t think this is, uh, you don’t you don’t do the images, right. It’s just through Spotify and listening. Right?

Alison : Right, right. And we just take a quick picture of you for the website.

Carla: Yeah. I’ve been listening for a long time because of Dolores. We have a mutual friend, but my husband laughs at me like I put perfume on and jewelry and I like, I want to be calm and be my best self for you guys. So no matter what I’m here, all of me is here for you.

Alison : I love that!

Jean : We are so grateful to have you on our show. And, uh, we did try to read your book and.

Alison : We tried….No. We’re teasing. We did it.

Carla: You’re killing me, ladies.

Alison : Yeah.

Jean : You must get a lot of that, or you probably will. Um, but, uh,

Carla: I do.

Jean : I loved your book. I loved, loved your book. I think for me, it really spoke to to so much of the, the patterns we get into without us even knowing it. Right?

Alison : And I just what what inspired you? Like, it’s it seemed like you had been you had said a couple of times, you know, it’s been you’ve been writing it for a bit. And so it inspired you in the beginning?

Carla: It’s a great story. So here’s the book.

Carla: Nice shiny copy. Um, you know, I, I was born in Long Island, New York. My father was a gambler. We were sometimes put in situations that were sink or swim. You’re either going to like, get out of this, like in a good way, or maybe not such a good way. So, you know, the trying mindset from a very young age was really, you know, we weren’t even given the option. You just got to go and do and be. And then my career’s reflected like it’s a combination. My passion is motivating and inspiring people, and I did that in every job I’ve ever had, even if it was waitressing. It was to make their meal incredible, right? And then I worked for Sundstrand Aviation, where I was the employee relations coordinator. So I was the communication between the shop floor and upper management. I was making all the employees dreams come true. And then, of course, I got into the music publishing world, where I was for 25 years and I worked with songwriters, and their dream was to get on the charts to get their song recorded by an artist, and it just never felt like work. It’s imagine you can’t try to sell ice to Eskimos like it’s, you know, it’s and music is intangible. So you got to do and you’ve got to do big and you’ve got to do hard. So that’s just a little background. Like I feel like I look at all those careers and I’m like, well, what did make me so successful and why did it work? Because I really don’t employ a trying mindset, which we’re going to get into, you know what that means and what we think it means and why we do it. But I have also been obsessed with self-help and rags to riches stories-  I love how did you go from here to here? And I read a lot of biographies and watch documentaries. And of course, you know, Shakti Gawain’s creative visualization, all the stuff. I’m 61. I’ve been I’ve had a long time to read a lot of self-help books. And and I thought that I would write in this one book, one time a year, everything that was going to happen the next year. So I’d start out with what I’m grateful for. And then I wrote, this year, one of my writers will have a song in the top ten. This year I will buy a home. This year I will– boom boom, boom. And not everything came true, but most of it did. So I started calling it my magic book. And I really, I had groups with women and questionnaires, and I was researching this whole, you know, is it the is it the act of getting it out of your head and making it something tangible and concrete? What is it that makes it manifest like that? And what I very quickly realized was it’s the words we use. And it wasn’t ever trying, wishing, hoping, wanting. I wrote, being, doing and having. And then I was just forever triggered by that word. Try. If anybody says it in my presence, I’m just like the bells go off. Yeah. And, uh, it’s crazy. I can’t even try on clothes in the dressing room. I, I say, I am going to put this dress on and see how it looks like it, and that’s how serious I am about it. Like that’s how much and how strongly I believe in not using this word. So there you go. That’s that’s me. I’m this crazy obsessed girl.

Alison : I, I think that’s first of all, that trying on clothes is a riot. You’re like, no, I’m. You have to try that on. No, no, I’d like to put this on. I love that.

Carla: You’re going to hate me the next time you go shopping, because you’re going to be like, oh, wait, I’m not.

Alison : Right.

Jean : But it’s so true. I’ve already caught myself when I say try, and I and I told my kids that we were interviewing you today and they both said, how great, what a great way to… But you’ve got to catch yourself.

Alison : Yeah. So, you know, it’s funny because my kid drew me a picture years ago. My motto is just do it. Just do it. Like, shut up and do it, you know? Um, and yet, in your book, I was saying to Jean, I, I want to hang on to the word trying. There’s something so… So, um, I don’t know. Why is that, do you think?

Carla: Okay, so this is a great lead into, you know, what is it? It’s an awareness is what you’re talking about. It’s not a trick. It’s not a hack. It’s an awareness of a word. And you know what? You have to realize that your words, your thoughts become your words. Your words then become your reality. What am I thinking? What am I going to do? And then your actions become your reality. So it all starts in your head. Your words. Your thoughts are your words. Your words are your actions, your actions or your reality. So it’s this big trickle down. It starts here. We believe that trying is doing. That’s the first misconception when we say we’re trying to do something, we think we’re doing it. And I’m not talking about semantics. So I could say I’m going to try to put these glasses on right. Odds are I’m going to make contact, pick them up and put them on my face. I’m talking about big ticket items that affect our health, our happiness, our relationships, our careers, our dreams, all of it. And you’re going to see that very clearly as we keep talking. So, um, so we think that trying means we’re doing we think that it’s brave. We think that it’s a courageous, brave first step. We think it’s, you know, the thing we need to do to discover what it is that’s going to happen, but it really isn’t. Um, trying. Isn’t brave because it’s dipping your toe in the water. Um, what trying really means is you’re not doing anything. So we can do a very quick test, and then I’ll go on. So this is the try test, and you’re going to feel physically what it feels like. So whoever’s listening out there you can do the test also. So hold a finger out in front of you. I’m going to give you three directions. If you’re driving. Don’t do this.

Alison : Okay.

Carla: The first direction is touch your nose. Perfect. Okay. And you can take your finger off. The second direction is do not touch your nose. Perfect. The third direction is. Try to touch your nose. You’ve already touched it, and you’ve already not touched it. So you can’t do those. Physically, I’d love to see you try really hard to touch your nose.

Alison : It feels like a waste.

Carla: Okay. Does it feel confusing?

Alison :   Yeah. It feels like a waste of time. Like, what am I doing?

Carla: It’s like you’re holding yourself back. Right. So if it felt confusing and awkward and silly, our brain feels much the same way that your finger does. It doesn’t know what to do. Am I doing this or am I not doing this? Okay. And one of the reasons that to your question of why do we want to hold on to this so much is because trying it allows for this safety net. Okay. There’s no accountability. When you say you’ll try to do something, you are off the hook. I only said I would try. So if I don’t do it, it’s okay. I didn’t say I would do it, I said I would try. So we lose all accountability. Um, you can use excuses. Okay. I tried to get there at 9:00, but the line at Starbucks, you know, we’ll even blame we’ll blame a line. So excuses blame and zero accountability. You know, I have an excuse. Oh, I thought I was supposed to be here at 930, but I’m now I’m here at, you know, I thought it was 930, so I’m late for the 9:00, so we want to hold on trying. Is this, like, really gentle net of of comfort and, um, why we do this when we get back to what it really means to try is the not doing. Trying as according to the dictionary definition, is in any dictionary is an attempt or an effort to do something- right. I’m on a mission to change that definition, because it really means- I’ll kinda sorta, maybe do it if ish, right? Yeah. You’re laughing. We know it’s true.

Jean : Right

Carla: So why we do it?… The number one reason is that we’re taught to try. So it’s not our fault. And we all do it, every single one of us, because our parents taught us to try and their parents before them. Give it a try. Try harder. Just try it. Try again. You’ll never know unless you try. So we’re taught that this is a really great way to go about doing something. But that’s one of the reasons and it really isn’t. Because like I said, you’re not really taking definitive action. You’re not really doing anything. You’re kind of tricking and fooling yourself into believing you’re doing something. And there’s science behind that also, because when you’re talking about, you know, you go to a party and you meet somebody new and they say, well, you know, I’m trying to develop a podcast. I’m trying to write a book when they’re telling you that our brain doesn’t know the difference between whether you’re talking about it or doing it. The it. The brain does it now. So you’re getting hits of dopamine, serotonin, adrenaline, all the feel good neurotransmitters in your brain. And for some people, that’s enough. And that’s why you go back to the party the next year and you’re like, well, how is that book going? Well, I’m still trying, right? Have you ever encountered that?

Alison : Yes. Very much.

Jean : Absolutely.

Alison : I wrote down that you said trying is a mental activity.

Carla: Yeah.

Alison : That’s, that is such a great sentence because I have looked at, I guess I guess I have looked at trying as a I, it brings up so much stuff for me. The word trying now, like like last night, last night I got a very important project to do, and I didn’t know if I was going to make it to be here today. I didn’t know, so I said to Jean, okay, I’m going to use the word trying. I’m going to try to finish it tonight. But I was putting in my best effort, but I should I not have said trying like what could have been better words for me to use to tell Jean because, but I couldn’t fully commit. It was a lot, a lot of work I had to do.

Carla: Yeah, You’re going to be much kinder to yourself and you’re going to operate from a much stronger place. Imagine that trying is shaky ground, right? I’m going to try. You’re building in the potential for failure. The second you say, Jean, I’m going to try to be there. You’re building in failure before you even go about doing it, right? Right. So if you say to her, look, I’m going to do everything I can. I want to be on the podcast tomorrow. I may not make it because trying, not trying doesn’t guarantee success. Not at all. But it does guarantee you a better chance at success. 100%. So you’re the person that’s directing your life. You’re the one telling the world what you’re going to do. You might as well arm yourself with out bringing in failure without the potential for failure, without bringing in all your excuses and blame, with holding yourself accountable. Everything you do, even trying on that dress in the fitting room, putting it on is going to be stronger. It’s a silly example with the clothing thing, but that’s what you would say instead of I’m going to try. You know, we walk around and we say,  I’m trying so hard, but nothing’s happening. And the problem isn’t that you aren’t trying hard enough. I’m sure you are. It’s that you’re trying in the first place. You’re just on the hamster wheel of excuses, blame, accountability, and not doi

Alison : Yeah, you’re so right. Because last night I did do everything I had to do to finish it. I finished it late. I wanted to be here to meet you and be with Jean. And you’re right. I just could have said, I’m going to do everything that I’m capable of to complete this. And then it’s understood. Yeah. That if I, if it if something else happens, something else broke or whatever and I couldn’t complete it, then that’s it. That’s a great thing. Carla. Thank you. That’s great.

Jean : And I just want to add a little bit to what we were just talking about about, uh, you know, you say in your book, like, try, try the peas versus taste the peas, right? I think for mothers and maybe just some mothers because everyone has their own fabulous mothering way. But, uh, it almost sounds more nurturing or kinder to say. Go ahead. Um, you know, try it, try it. You know, I know you think you can’t read the book, but try it, honey. And it. You’re. So I want you to speak to that because it’s it’s disempowering.

Carla:  It totally is. I’m going to cover so much with that. Um, so yeah, when we offered a try, it does sound gentler and kinder and softer and nicer, but it is not kinder, gentler and nicer. It’s actually the opposite of that. And I’ll explain why. But when we tell our kids, try your best. Okay, I have a test coming up, or I’m going out for a new job. Or if they’re younger, going out for a team or going to be in the school play or whatever it is. And we say, just try your best. That’s telling them, go half hearted, go, go kind of, sort of do it and lean on all the excuses and blame. You can blame everybody else for not giving you enough time or nobody listening to you or whatever, but when you tell them to do their best, their brain is rewired. The minute you change your word from trying to doing, your brain lights up on a different level. There’s actually studies and images. When you say you are going to try your you’re Your radiating on a very low hum like a neutral. But when you say the words I’m doing this. Your brain is lighting up now. It has it knows it has to take strong, determined action. It knows what that means. So when you tell your kids do your best, they’re going to flip that switch and they’re going to put in the extra thing. They’re not going to seek out a excuses. They’re not going to they’re going to give themselves a sense of accountability.

Carla: And if they don’t make it and they still fail their test or get a lower grade than they want, they’re walking out with their head held high and they know, look, I did everything I can now. They have pride and self esteem and they can go and do it again or whatever they can. Um, when someone needs our advice, you know, we’ll we even say it in a very soft voice, you know? Have you tried this? Why don’t you try calling so and so? It’s very soft and pretty, right? What that person needs in that moment is you to tell them you need to call this person. You need to get this book and read it. You need to do this. They’re looking and seeking help. They don’t want someone passively telling them to maybe kind of do something right. I appreciate it. And um, and also with the being kind thing with the kids, women especially, one of the big reasons that we offer to try is because we think it’s mean to say, no, it’s very we say, I’ll try to be there because we hate saying no. We tell our kids we’ll try to whatever because we feel like that’s mean and cruel and not nice. But what it means is you’re not being kinder to them when you’re misleading them. You’re not being you’re teaching them that you are kind of you can’t count on this person. You’re not teaching them to keep their word.

Carla: Right. Um, and it’s not kinder to you either. For example, you know, if somebody invites you to a fundraiser and you want to be the kind, nice person and say, well, I’ll try to make it. Thank you. And you, it’s on Friday night and you get home and you’re home thinking, wow, I said I would try to go. I could go. I have nothing else going on, I should go. I said I would try to go. I know, you know, they really want me there. And it’s a great cause. And so now you’re adding all this stress and anxiety and you’re guilt tripping yourself and all the negative stuff. And you don’t get to enjoy your night because you’re like, what am I going to tell them? And what’s my excuse? And I didn’t go. So now you’ve just blown your night. If you would say to that person, thank you for the invitation. It’s a Friday night. I have a busy week. I’m sure I’m not going to make it. And I would love you to keep inviting me to the next one. But no thank you. They’re not going to wait for you. They’re not going to get your special cupcakes that they know you love in case you show up. And now they’re moving on. You’ve given them the freedom to know if you’ve given them the honesty. So it’s one of the exercises in the book. We have to practice saying no instead of I’ll try.

Alison : That was a great part of the book. I have to say the the do it, don’t try it. Those I thought the I thought those were excellent. Uh, how did you come up with those?

Carla: Well, I’ve been basically thinking about this. Any time I see the word, try and just researching it. You know, I never, ever aspired to be an author. I didn’t know what I was going to do with it. I really didn’t know. I just was obsessed and compiled. And like I said, I have study groups that I’ve done with women. And, um, but what happened was the universe kept bringing me these opportunities, and I thought maybe I should listen. Like, maybe I need to do this because I don’t know what your religion is, but I had a feeling if I don’t do it in this lifetime, I’m going to have to come back. And this is my message. And nobody else was doing it. You know, we nobody else. We all know the Yoda. You know. Do or do not. There is no try. It’s on posters and it’s, you know, hundreds of millions of people know it. But nobody ever said why, why there is no try. But to me, it was vivid and it was like this big, big, huge banner in front of me every day. So. So that’s why, you know, look, I’m, I’m 61. I’ve had freaking 3 or 4 careers. I’ve launched two kids. I want to have fun. My husband’s touring and I want to go out on tour with him and finally be able to do that. But I’m doing the book. I’m working harder than I’ve ever worked in my whole life, and and I’m very passionate about it. So that’s how the idea came up. I just the universe kept pushing me like, meet this person and go meet this person and Mel Robbins has endorsed my book, you guys. That’s just…It’s it’s insanity. That was the universe going. Carla, you you have to do this.

Jean : So when I started reading your book, Carla, I thought she is so on it. This is what we need… That it really generates self-worth  and speaks to who and what we really are.  I mean, I’m just going to, you know, I discount myself and and we sort of inadvertently, unconsciously discount another person’s powerful creative abilities. And so you’re, you’re really wise in in directing. Hey, hey, take a look. Did you fall into this pattern? Um, because there’s a power within you, and it’s our voice, our thoughts, our actions. And, um, you address all of that in your book.

Alison : Yeah.

Carla: Well, thank you so much.

Jean : Yeah.

Carla: Go ahead.

Jean :  Can you give us some tips? Like, if you’re a doer, like something that, like 2 or 3 things that you could offer that just starting to embody..

Carla: Embody, embody the whole thing? Absolutely. Um, thank you for saying that. You know, I just it makes me really sad when people say, well, you know, I’m too old and they just get all the negatives. And then, you know, life is finite. It is passing us by. We don’t have forever. The time is now. And if you could flip your your thinking and just dive in and fail, like fail big time, it’s the greatest thing that can happen to you. Which would be one of the 50 tips I could give you. Really? Okay, so the first thing is become super, super familiar with what trying means. Really, once you know that you’ve conquered a big step and then you ask yourself, you know, look, both of you are successful women. You’ve had amazing careers and life times and look what you’re doing, right? But there’s probably some area of your life where you’re choosing to try. I don’t know what it is. It could be, you know, I, I wonder, like, why do people say, well, I’m going to try to spend more time with my kids, right? You’re going to have heart that spend more time with your kids. Do the action right. Trying means that means, you know, on one Saturday we go to the park and then everything falls off the cliff. That’s a trying effort, okay? Or I’m going to try to work on my marriage.

Carla: I’m going to try to schedule my dermatology appointment every year. I have to do it. I’m going to try, try, try. We end up not doing it because that’s no action. And then we find out we have skin cancer, right. So you have to ask yourself. Look, I know I can do, I know I’m capable and I’m doing all these things. So ask yourself, why am I choosing to try here? What is the thing that I’m avoiding and afraid of? So that’s one way. Um. Another thing is literally start really small. So I love to give this little example because when you get the hit of doing, you’re just like, wow, what else can I do? Because I want that feeling again. Okay. Now. So we all have the junk drawer in the kitchen. Okay. The drawer or wherever it is that you can’t close because the empty tape container, the the scissors, the the crap that’s in there, right. All the it doesn’t even close. So, you know, I walk by that thing and I go in and out of it. I’m, like, scurrying around looking for a screwdriver and a whatever. So one day I’m like, oh, my God. Like, I’m just going to do this. I’m going to clean it. And it took me maybe eight minutes.

Carla: Okay, I just got a little garbage thing. Boom boom boom. It was so beautiful. I had everything in their little place, and I felt so good. It wasn’t as hard as I created it in my mind. Like, I’m going to try to get around to it half the time. The things that we say we’re going to try to do are just getting bigger and bigger in our heads. And, um, I did it. And then I felt great. It’s so good that I like, I’d walk by and I’d open it up and I’d look, yeah….

Alison : I’m the Same way…

Carla:  right?

Jean : God, that looks so great.

Carla: It’s so great.

Alison : I got a closet and i open it like..Oh, oh, yeah. Right.

Carla: And so do something little. So start small. As with everything, become aware of why you’re trying and that you are in fact even trying. You can enlist, help, have people around you kind of catch you when you say it. I’m a strong believer in the power of silence. So when I was writing my book, there were people in my family that didn’t even know, a lot of my friends had no idea. I don’t need to talk about what I’m doing. I just do it, because the talking part is where you’re giving away your energy and you know…. Right, does that resonate with you?

Jean : Yeah. Absolutely. And not only, um, it’s just adding you just don’t want naysayers or and you spoke about this or….

Alison : I have an idea for chapter four, carla, do this like you don’t.

Carla: . Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you know what’s so interesting? I love what you said, Jean, about you don’t want other people’s input because sometimes, unfortunately, people that you share with, they’re not happy for you. They don’t want you to succeed. And sometimes people can come from a very loving place. You know, Carla, you’re really going to write another self-help book. There’s so many out there. I don’t want you to be disappointed. I don’t want you to, you know, so it can come from a loving place or it can come from a not. So you protect yourself and you hold all that energy. I mean, I, I have conversations with Oprah Winfrey like I’m literally sitting in front of her. I fantasize about it. You know, like, I, I, I want this to be successful, but I’m not going to share that. I’ve never even told anybody that. But you girls, you know, like i keep a lot of stuff to myself. So power of silence is so powerful. Um. Starting small. Um, uh, become aware of the use of the word try. And, um, I’m just going to I want to tell you this other thing. So we all make lists, you know, you’ve got. I would say a big thing is to really don’t make the lists the, the to do list. What that is, is a try to list. And what happens in our brain, it’s called the zeigarnik effect that not a lot of people know about. The Zeigarnik effect means that when you have a list of stuff you’re trying to get done or your to do list, it’s unfinished business, then our brain loves to hold on to and gravitate toward unfinished, and they’re stored as incomplete loops in our brain. So we have all these incomplete loops. Imagine like energy going to all those. It’s like the brain just boom boom boom focusing. And the way to alleviate that is do the one thing, just do one thing on the list. And the loop closes and it’s gone. And now you have more space and more calm. You don’t have as much as much anxiety. You have that release of energy. Wow, I did that. Then you do the next thing and the next thing. So yeah, we’ve got all these unfinished loops. It’s why cliffhangers work. You know, the entertainment world does it.

Carla: It’s it’s. wait. How’s it going to end? So we think about it all week and we talk about it. Oh, I can’t wait for, you know, Thursday night, the season ending of whatever. It’s a science. It’s real. And when you cram for a test as a student, you’re cramming. You’re cramming. You’ve got all this information. But the minute you take the test, you close the loop and then you don’t remember any of it, right? So you be aware that this is like our brain is working. And when we’re trying and doing all these things, we’re we’re not helping ourselves. We really are not helping ourselves.

Alison : Do you have any like it was interesting that you said, um, like, there might be some things that we’re avoiding or like trying to do. Do you have anything like that left in your life? Like, do you have any fears or anything like that for you currently?

Carla: Yeah, we we we try. Did you read the, uh, the intro about my son in the car?

Jean : Yes, yes.

Carla: Okay. And it was such a great analogy. It happened like, as I was writing the book and I was like, why did I keep trying to make that thing work? Why didn’t I go to the dealership and say, look, guys, my monitor. It’s Russian roulette. I can’t get the AC to work, I can’t get the radio to work. And and I just suffered with it, you know, and I got used to it. And I just expected that maybe one day it would work. Right? Trying to deal with it. And when he pulled back, I mean, we died laughing. It was incredible. But I said, that is amazing because when you stop trying, you are literally peeling back your layer of what you’re not doing. And so, of course, I mean, it is hard for me now because I’m so hyper aware of trying, but, um, and it’s not my nature. I tend to start and in the music business, if I wanted to get on a record, it was like, what do I need to do? And I just see the ending. I, I don’t I don’t see the roadblocks in the way. I just see what I want and either I get there or I don’t, or I pivot and figure out a way in. So but I’m sure I will try again in my life and they will come up.

Alison : It makes me feel a little better. And then I had one other question. I’m not sure I can fully put this into words. Um, the the I how do you know if you’ve done it? Like like like, let’s say you had written this book and you have it in your computer and it’s done, and no one wants to put it out there. Let’s just say that that had happened. It was a great book, so that never would have happened. But something like that, like you put in a lot of the work, you actually did the action and then for some reason, what you had expected or what you had thought was the full experience of it doesn’t come to fruition. Would you consider yourself still having done it? Do you understand my question?

Carla: Oh, yeah. It’s a great it’s a fantastic question. So first of all, the trying effort is, you know, I’m going to start writing the book but never finishing. But okay, you finish the book, you actually send it out to 20 publishers and everybody comes back and says, no, that’s called trying. Doing is, I’m going to send it to 20 more. You have heard all the stories of J.K. Rowling, who was turned down by everybody. So you keep going until either someone says yes or you self-publish. Okay. There are ways to get it out there. You, you. Instead of going to publishers now you go to literary attorneys, literary agents. You find someone or you find someone that will, you know, believe in your story. And you know what? If all roads lead to no, at some point and it’s not what you wanted it to be. You know, if this book doesn’t sell copies, I’ve, i’ve already won.

Carla: Yes, I’ve already won. I did what I said I was going to do. If I didn’t even get a publisher, I’d already won. I said I wanted to write the book and I did it. Now, yes, I want people to read it. I’m already a winner. But how do you know if you’ve succeeded or failed? That’s within you. And that’s your personal set of what do I want to get out of this? So if you write a book and everybody turns it down, I’m sorry. There are so many ways you can self-publish these days. You could even print up 50 copies and put them online and let your friends buy them, you know? But if that’s not the level you want, then you pivot and you say, maybe it wasn’t, uh, for me to do this. How else can I get my message out there? Maybe I’ll just become a speaker and I’ll volunteer at the local rotary clubs, which every city has them with. You know, people that want to learn and business people that you can help. So you just keep doing is the answer to that.

Alison : Thank you. Thanks. Because I thought that was, you know, you are so supportive. And this, you know, this almost felt like a spiritual book to me.

Carla: Oh my gosh.

Alison :  especially at the end. I loved your trailblazer tips.

Carla: And then soulful solutions.

Alison : Yes. And I just really thought that that I can see how the universe was supporting you because it really is just really very, very beautifully done, I appreciated it.

Carla:  wow.

Jean : And I want to speak to just a a quote. You need to be definite with the infinite.

Alison : Mhm.

Jean : Because if you’re um, if you’re, if you’re wishy washy that’s what you’re going to sort of get back.

Carla: Mhm.

Jean : We live in a reflective universe and, and so um you’re really giving us back our power to create and, and craft the lives that, that we, we really desire from our heart, rather than just half heartedly go through, through life and and what a pity it it is to to wrap up this life when we never know when we’re being called home and having regrets because we, we kind of tried through life.

Carla: So true. Having regrets. 100%. I’m very honored and I love that you both interpreted it that way. I do feel very connected with the universe, and that’s why I’m doing this. It’s not I don’t I’m a behind the scenes star maker. Like, I have made careers and I’m I’m not comfortable in the front. But you know what? I had to do it. I have to do it because that’s my gift. Um, and I also just I wanted to say it earlier, but I want to make sure that I get it in here. How are we on time? Are we okay?

Alison : Yes.

Carla: Okay. Um, by the way, we already know this. It’s already in us, and we already utilized this, but on a on an unconscious level. So I my job has been to bring this to our conscious level and our daily use. For example, you wouldn’t put your money in a bank that says we’re going to try to keep track of your money and I’ll try to have it available to you when you want it. Nope. We don’t go to that bank. Right? And you wouldn’t go to a surgeon that says, I will try to remember which limb to remove in the room. No. You want the person that’s going to amputate the correct limb. And we don’t tell our kids on their first solo drive out of our driveway, in our car, you know, try to stop at the stop signs, try to try not to drive too fast. Right. We we don’t put the money in that bank. We don’t buy the bottle that says tries to relieve your headache. It’s the one that relieves it quicker, faster and better than anybody else. So we’re making decisions on an unconscious level where we’re not allowing for trying in our life. And this is like kind of eye opening, right? We don’t think about it. And we’re also not given the opportunity to try at the same time. The airline doesn’t say, can you try to be here at 930 because we want to try to take off by 10:00? No, it’s it’s be here. But that doesn’t mean it’s going to take off just because you don’t try to get there.

Carla: Your flight may be canceled and storms may come up, but if you’re not there, you’re not increasing your odds of getting on that flight. And, um, if you don’t charge your car or put gas in your car, it’s going to stall. It’s going to not function. You can’t not pay your mortgage payment or rent payment. We don’t we’re not given the option to try to pay our mortgage and try to do this. And I think one of your guests, I can’t remember the podcast, but it was about being hungry. And I think she even said trying to eat, like, what does that even mean? I’m going to think about getting dinner. I’m going to think about what I want. Unless you’re eating the food that’s going to, you know, you can’t try to eat. You have to you can’t try to, you know. So we already know this. It’s in there. So we just need to bring it up. And all everything your relationships, when you’re not trying to be a good friend or trying to be patient with someone, or trying to be generous or trying to work on your, you know, time with somebody when you’re doing it. It’s a totally different set of actions, and they’ll be better and your business will be better. Your health will be better, your everything will be better. You’ll finally stop trying to learn to play piano. And you’re either, you know, okay, there’s one place that I tried.

Alison : I that’s a great story in the book.

Carla: Oh my God. You know, I tried I’m like, screw this. Actually, I decided I’m not going to do it. And um. Oh my God, I feel like I could just like I have the stream of conscious stuff. I want to say. That’s all in there. I could I just should read the book. Right? Um, out loud. But, um, another thing, you know, one of the big highlights when I’m speaking to women and women’s groups, which I do all the time. And if you ever want me to speak to anybody, I will. But they love it when I do the part about learn to say no. You know, it’s not kinder to say no. But this is the other part that really gets everybody excited. Is that not doing something, choosing not to do it? I’m not going to do that. Is stronger than saying I’ll try and failing.

Alison : Yeah.

Carla: So you know my example, I probably didn’t put it in the book. But, you know, I used to go on vacation with the family and I’d be like, I’m going to try to, like, eat healthy and I’m going to try to go to the gym and I would Google the gym like, oh good, they have a gym and I’m just going to stay on my plan. And then I’d get there and I’d want to sleep late. I’m like, I’m on vacation, I don’t really want to work out, and I want the fruity thousand calorie drink at the pool. And I’d have it and then. But I’d feel terrible. I’d think, wow, you know I’m not. I said I was going to try to eat better and try to exercise, and but I’m not doing that. And now I’m like, sucking at my vacation because I’m giving myself all this mental crap. But now I just say, oh my gosh, like, look out, look out, bar….You know…Look out. I am not even going to look at the gym. I’m not doing anything. I’m going to enjoy my vacation because I know when I make the decision to do it, it’ll be as strongly as when I make the decision not to.

Jean : Yeah.

Alison : I think that I have definitely, as I’ve gotten older, said, no, that does not interest me.

Jean : Yeah,

Alison : It Doesn’t interest me. I don’t want to go skydiving.  It’s Not in my wheelhouse.  you know, I’m 66, I don’t I you know, I want to stay in the plane.

Alison : So. You know, I totally I, I loved that piano story so much. That so resonated with me. I don’t want to give it away because I want people to buy your book.

Jean : Yeah. Your stories…

Alison : Yeah, they are great.

Carla: Oh my gosh, thank you.

Jean : And, um, I just want, you know, I know we could we could talk forever about this gorgeous book you wrote. I also think it’s timely, Carla, because I feel as a human race, we are being asked to be more self-responsible, not to give our power away, to really speak up more and to become the best we can really be for ourselves and our, you know, and that ripples out. So, um, my goodness, you are just so inspiring! I love your book. I didn’t finish it yet, but I am. I am going to finish it. I’ve listened to. I’m not going to try. I will finish it. But this has been so great..

Alison : I really enjoyed it. So thank you so much. And we just have two quick wrap up questions. First one is our podcast is called Inside Wink. What do you think? What does that mean for you?

Carla: Yeah, I read that I have to answer that question this morning. I was like, oh, I’m so glad I read that. You know, to me it’s a couple of things. It means, a knowing that you don’t even have to express verbally, you know, maybe with two friends, just an understanding of a situation and somebody like a beautiful kind of I get it. I got it’s like your own little I got this kind of a feeling of confidence and inside wink and, um, the other one was just being in on something that nobody else is in on. Like having just having a secret, you know?

Jean : Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.

Alison : I really love that. You know, Dolores. Dolores, our mutual friend, is so lucky because you’re such you’re really a woman’s pal. You know, you’re really a good. I can really feel it from you. And then you have the last question.

Jean : Absolutely. Uh, okay. Carla, uh, do you prefer cake? Pie or ice cream?

Carla: Easy pie.

Alison : Really good.

Carla: 100%. I love pie. We’ve actually started on the birthdays now. Like, instead of just doing the cake, like, what are you going to eat? Like, we’re sick of, like, having two. And for me, in any flavor, peach, blackberry, cherry. It doesn’t matter I love pie. I love the, the, you know, eating it as you walk by with a fork. I love eating the crust. I just I love it warm. I love it cold, I love pie. It’s irresistible to me. I eat a piece of pie anytime I have an opportunity to do so.

Alison : Oh, I love that.

Jean : Wonderful.

Carla: Well, I know one of you is a baker. You’re a baker. You’re a baker?

Jean : Yes.

Carla: And, uh, you bake good pies?

Jean : You know, pie is not easy to make. It’s the crust. I mean, if you’re going to go all in the crust, you know, takes a little time and, um. But, um. Yeah, I used to make a lot of pies. Now I live on my own, so I…

Carla: You can still make pie.

Alison : I’m an eater. I’m just an eater, that’s all.

Carla: What’s your favorite?

Alison : Me? Yeah, I, I like sort of the mixture of everything. Like, I like pie with ice cream or cake with ice cream.

Carla: Or cake with pie.

Alison : Like the turducken. Like, put the ball on a plate and I’m happy. My birthday is on Monday and I’m trying to, you know, figure out how to get as much of that in me in the next week because I just enjoy it. I love it, you know.

Carla: I love it. Now you have a reason to bake a pie, Jean.

Jean : That’s right,

Alison : thank you so much. Carla.

Carla: Thank you for having me. Follow me on Instagram. Because every day, like I do really fun posts and really great little moments from our life where we try and how not to do that. So I that’s always a great thing. And I love sharing on Instagram or TikTok.

Alison : I can’t wait till I watch you on Oprah.

Carla: Right?

Carla: Yes, right. Energy. Energy out in the universe.

Alison : I know it.

Jean : We live in a possible infinite universe, so why not?

Carla: Thank you.

Alison : thank you so, so much.

Carla: I Appreciate this.

Alison : Have a great afternoon.

Carla: All right. I’m glad you made it.

Alison : Me too.

Alison : It was so much fun.

Carla: Bye bye, ladies. Thank you.

Jean : Okay. She was fantastic.

Alison : And so interesting. And I feel like it’s perfect for right now.

Jean : Me too.

Alison : For our mindset to get people for stop. Stop maybe worrying or, you know, spinning and actually start to do something because I think everyone will feel better.

Jean : Yes, exactly. I think I don’t know who I think you and I were talking about this, that sometimes when you feel anxious, the antidote to that is to actually do something. If you’re spinning in your head, do something, go for a walk, or do the thing that you’re thinking about. Just do it and you’ll feel so much lighter in your mind.

Alison : Right? And I think it’s amazing, after reading this book and speaking with Carla, how much the word try is in my vocabulary.

Jean : Yeah, we are so conditioned with that word. And, uh, I love that she talked about women and saying no. And and the falseness behind… It’s it’s a kind way to be to just say I’m trying. And actually, a real loving way is to speak your truth and go, hey, this isn’t going to work for me. Please keep me.

Alison : In the loop.

Jean : In the loop for next time or whatever. You know, whatever she she was sharing. But I loved her book.

Alison : Yeah. And it’s it’s a great read, great exercises. And, um, I like that just to start small like, right, right now, you know, just doing, listening to this podcast you’re doing and that and just to start small doesn’t have to be like, oh, I’m gonna.

Jean : Never say try again.

Alison : Right, right. Just start small. You don’t have to build a whole house. Just start. So.

Jean : That’s right.

Alison : It’s great. So thank you so much, Carla. I’ve learned a lot and.

Carla: Yes. And it was great to see you. Yeah, great to see you again.

Alison : And we know Carla through our friend Dolores. And boy, she’s another fantastic woman.

Jean : Yeah. We are surrounded by beautiful women, good friends inside and out there. Everyone is just such a a beautiful being.

Alison : We’re very lucky.

Jean : And empowered and lovely people.

Alison : And I love at the end about just giving gratitude and being grateful for where you are.

Jean : Right.

Alison : And that the opportunity to move forward.

Jean : Well said.

Alison : I’m going to eat more M&Ms.

Jean : Okay.

Alison : Okay. Goodbye.