Podcast Episode 64: Danny Miller

Alison: Click click click. We’re like waiting.

Jean: And we’re off and running. There we are.

Alison: How are you?

Jean: I’m great. I love seeing you.

Alison: I love seeing you. And we’ve both been a little busy.

Jean: We have been. Yeah. But you are redoing your home.

Alison: Yeah, I’m redoing bits and pieces of my home to make sure that, um, it stays lovely.

Jean: Well, it is lovely. And what you’re doing is, is some extra zhuzhing. And it looks beautiful, Alison I love what you’re doing.

Alison: Thank you. I think homes are so important.

Jean: Yeah.

Alison: Because, uh, you know, you want to feel cozy.

Jean: And you want to come home to something that, you know,

Alison: Makes you feel happy, right… Even if it’s just little changes.

Jean: Yes.

Alison: And speaking of happy ……

Jean: And changes,

Alison: ..Right. I really enjoy this man. Um, Danny Miller. And I know him because I have acted, actually, and am friends with his wife because we were both at the same theater company.

Jean: Right. I remember going to her one woman show, which was very powerful.

Alison: Oh my gosh, he talks about it in this book… I love her and she’s such a wonderful person. Just like him.

Jean: Yes. So Danny Miller has authored three wonderful books. Um,  “The Gifts of Acceptance”, “Losing Control, Finding Serenity”, and “The Way of the Wave”, which is what we’re going to talk to him about this afternoon.

Alison: Yeah. And he really he’s very comforting because he allows you to feel your feelings and gives you options.

Jean: Yes. And he also really exposes his own struggles and, um, brings so much wisdom to to what he went through after after great reflection over his life. And it shows you that, you know, you can take whatever it is going on in your life and make it something that can transform your thinking, transform your consciousness..

Alison: And, scene–  that was excellent. That’s exactly right, that was excellent.

Jean: Well thank you, Alison, it’s hanging out with you.

Alison: Oh no. I can only tell you about tiles and flooring. That’s all I’m good for. Um, but here he is, Dan Miller. Well, Danny. Danny miller.

Danny: Hello.

Alison: Oh,HI!

Danny: Hi. How you doing?

Alison: Great.

Jean: Okay, well, Danny, you have authored another beautiful transformational book called “The Way of the Wave. And congratulations.

Danny: Thank you so much. Thank you, I appreciate that.

Alison: Reading it was such a pleasure because I, um, I see so much of you in it. Not not because, uh, we know each other a little, but because you’re so vulnerable in it and you really express, uh, things that you’ve gone through. How was that for you? Like, was that how was that to be that vulnerable?

Danny: It was a decision I made. I, I intended it and wanted it to be a more personal book. Um, and so I did make the decision that I’m going to share, um, my struggles, uh, the challenges that I’ve had, um. The shortcomings and how I managed to improve upon those or reduce those shortcomings. And so I did use mainly my personal stories, whereas in the other books, uh, I would interview and talk to people about their stories and maybe 1 or 2 of mine. So I wanted this to be a personal book. Uh, I intended it to be, uh, short chapters. I didn’t want them to be extensive chapters. And I looked at it sort of like, uh, more of a guide, uh, and more more from the intention that this is what’s worked for me. Maybe it can work for you. You know, I, I feel that I’m sort of a typical, normal person. And I made that assumption that there’s others like me that struggle with the same issues, their fears, their anxieties, things like that. So that’s why at the end of each chapter, I have some prompts, uh, that include a few prompts. So the idea is that people can, um, look at their own lives from the perspective of what I’ve shared in the chapters, and see if it applies to them or how it may apply to them.

Danny: So that was the idea of the book. And, uh, I am very happy about it. It’s, uh, there was a journey that started almost 40 years ago with this book. Um, after I had undergone a five year period of some pretty traumatic events. Um, and I went to the beach one day and just started looking at the waves. Uh, just to get away and find some peace. And it was that day. And seeing the waves that I just instinctively, intuitively connected with them, that this could be the keys for my healing, because I really needed a lot of healing. And that was the beginning, uh, of a book. I did some writings, and the book was called, “The Wave” and and during Covid, you know, we’re moving boxes to storage and we have all this time on our hands. Uh, I came across 15 chapters of the book that, uh, I wrote in the late 1980s, and I thought, wow, I couldn’t complete it then because I didn’t know enough about it. I felt and understood it, but it sharing it, explaining it, articulating it, uh, was one thing, and I don’t think I had enough life experiences. So, uh, during Covid, I started writing and it just sort of flowed and came together and, uh, it was just a great joy in doing it.

Alison: That’s fantastic.

Jean: It is and and it’s so clever to use a body surfer.

Alison: Yeah.

Jean: The metaphor of the wave, the ocean, the body surfer to address all these human tendencies that that we all go through. And and I just want to say, Danny, I and I think Alison was alluding to this, your vulnerability, to really share that with your audience, because that gave us like gave me permission to say, yeah, I do that too. I do that too.

Danny: yeah,

Jean: Uh, you know, sometimes, well my mother used to say, and it’s a quote, you know, you see the plank in someone’s..NO, it’s, “You see the speck in someone’s eye, but you don’t see the plank in your own eye.” And I’m thinking that when I was reading your book, I’m like, yep, I’ve gone through that.

Alison: And I love that you, um, the controlling Danny I could relate to so much. And I think the most interesting part was the controlling of people you love– thinking you’re helping. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Danny: Sure… As I shared in the book, is I was a major controller, uh, in so many ways, not only work, but also also at home. It was like with my son, i was father knows best and didn’t hesitate to let him know –until he got older and got a little dismissive of that. Right? Um, but the idea behind the control is, first of all, there’s there’s a shortage of humility. There’s a feeling that, um, I know what’s best for others or I know what they should do, and while sometimes that may be true, but most, most of the time it’s not okay because I’m not them. And so there’s I say there’s there’s a lack of humility. And I’ve learned this so many times that I don’t often know what’s best for me. So who am I to share that with others? Right. But controllers tend to do that because they they have expectations and they want people to do certain things, especially their loved ones, their family. Um, and, you know, and as I’ve analyzed it myself, you know, you can say, well, it’s because I’m being benevolent, because I want what’s best for them. But I don’t, you know, if I really looked at it honestly, and that’s what I try to do. It’s mainly because I want what’s best for me. Yeah. See, and that’s why if I expect someone to do certain things a certain way is because I’m going to like that better. I’m going to feel better about that. Right. So, um, giving up control, letting go of control. And that’s why, you know, the body surfing and the waves. The waves are in control, not us. I used to body surf. You learn that right away. They are in control. And. Well, the best thing we can try to do is align with them. You know, and that’s why I get into the idea and the concept of acceptance.

Alison: Yeah.

Danny: We need to accept those waves as they are if we’re going to be able to align and flow with them in any meaningful way. So the whole idea of the wave in a, in a very over essence is when you let go of control, it releases the currents, the life currents in this case. And when we accept them, we can accept their the reality and try to align with the ones that are best for us, or to make the choices that are best for us under those circumstances. So we got to, in a way, let go but we also have to accept both of those things.

Alison: Or how are they.. How letting go of your own control and accepting what is in control or or  somebody else? Is that what you mean? Like, it’s interesting that you’re seeing them as two separate things, I like that.

Danny: I’m not quite. Can you say that again?

Alison: You’re saying, you’re saying, “letting go” and I always equated “letting go” as the same thing as “acceptance.”

Danny: Oh, okay.

Alison: Do you know, and I think it’s interesting that you’re showing me an option that maybe it’s two separate things.

Danny: I think so, in other words, I look at acceptance as the antidote for control. When we’re accepting people as they are things they are, we don’t need to try to control them. So in that sense, the more accepting we are, the less controlling we are. They’re almost like two sides of the same coin. And what interferes with that quite a bit, or what I refer to in the book or the wave obstacles. Right, so the idea is, is I was sitting watching the waves, i said, yeah, I want to go with the flow, you know, and but how do you do that? You know, and I didn’t know, you know, you always hear about it. And so that was really part of the journey is, is, uh, what can, um, get me on the flow and maintain the flow longer than what I normally could? And to that, it comes into the idea not only letting go of control. Um, I have to reduce my expectations and my judgments. Because when when I’m judging others or expecting too much of others, my focus is on them and not on me, you know? And the whole thing to me is I’ve looked at expectations, is there’s a perceived need, i think that I’m looking to others to fulfill a need of mine. And look, only I, I truly can, can fulfill my own needs. Someone can support me and maybe love me. Uh, but it’s up to me, you know, to fulfill my needs in any really true, meaningful way, you know? So those are some of the obstacles I have other, you know, others, you know, fear and anger and limited thinking. That’s why I call the obstacles there.

Alison: Wonderful chapter. That was that was a great part of the book. Yeah.

Jean: I mean, we could spend all afternoon just talking about.

Danny: Yeah.

Jean: Breaking down each one of them. And, um, I think Alison and I wanted to touch upon one that spoke to her.

Danny: Okay.

Jean: And while I’m speaking, I’ll just say the one about…well They’re were all so great, Danny, but when you talk about the lull wave, you know, I thought that was so interesting for me because I have a couple of friends that are going through a time in their life where not much is happening.

Danny: Yes.

Jean:  and and what do you do with that time? So can you talk about.

Danny: Sure. Because I as I share in the book, after the publication of,.. The Gifts of Acceptance, there was all that lead up and all the excitement. I had a lull, you know, or you it happens often with something that we’re intensely involved with, you know. And then it ends or eases it up, and then what then? And, uh, at first, you know, I included under the obstacles. Okay. But it’s not really necessary. An obstacle, I don’t think. Uh, it could be as much an enhancer and obviously a lot of lulls during Covid and things like that, and I like, like what you just shared. Um, I had a friend not long ago, he just retired from a very, uh, active career, uh, environmental world and for worked for the state of California in which he was going everywhere doing everything. And then he retired. And so he was the first time we got together, um, with our wives as well,  he was sharing, you know, he’s just feeling this discomfort, you know, and he’s it’s just sort of reanalyze, I think. And, I said, Stanley, you’re having a low and he said, what’s that?, first of all, it’s normal. It’s normal. Everybody has it. It’s part of life. So try to embrace that and accept that, you know, and the equation is sort of like if, if, uh, if surfers are out surfing and all of a sudden there’s no waves, you know, what do they do? Right.

Danny: Uh, a lot of them go home and wait for another day. You know, and so, uh, I think if we look at lulls as a means of, uh, a time when we can explore, learn more about ourselves, uh, try new, new things, maybe that we didn’t try or have the time for before. Um, and just trust. And that’s one of the big enhancers I talk about is trusting the flow, uh, which I’m learning to apply more and more. It’s becoming bigger and bigger. Acceptance is big, but trust goes right along with that is. So when I’m in a low, I just will trust that things are going to be okay. You know? Trust trust is maybe I’m going to wait around, wait in the water a little bit and wait for new currents to come. But that’s okay. That’s just part of life. Um, not that it’s not, uh, that there’s not discomfort, but it reduces that, when you put it in that perspective and that there’s nothing wrong with this. I don’t know if you ever, I used to get into this thing, is that I’m being unproductive…That feeling of being unproductive is. What is that exactly? I mean, in the sense that we have to be productive all the time? Right. And so it’s sort of with that idea that it’s okay to be unproductive for a while. Yeah. Okay.

Jean: My my beloved late husband, Alex, used to have a very hard time when the show was on hiatus. Hiatus?

Danny: Yeah, right.

Jean: He would come into the kitchen and he’d say, oh, Jeannie, I feel like I’m just “fumping” around.

Danny: Right.

Jean: Like, I’m not being productive. And we’re so geared to to be to do do do and.

Danny: Yes.

Jean: Yeah. It’s great to take these times and just Be a little bit.

Danny: Right

Alison: There’s a certain amount of guilt with being unproductive for me.

Danny: A guilt. Yeah.

Alison: You know, I feel like you should do something, organize something, clean something. If you’re not auditioning…do something.. Do you know, it’s a guilty feeling?

Danny: You know what’s a good a good thing to do during those times is to do something. Well, you’re an actress, so do something creative. Doesn’t have to be acting right. But, um, you know, I’ve painted a lot, but more in the past since I started writing. So, uh, during Covid, I started painting again, you know, and so it just being in that creative realm, whatever it might be, writing, painting, performing, um, and also just being in nature more, you know, nature is so healing to me, you know. So, um.

Alison: My favorite thing that you talked about, about painting is when you said you kept turning the canvas, keep painting. And I was like, that’s fantastic, because it almost made me want to try to paint and do that.

Danny: You should.  yeah, you know it’s so interesting when you and that one painting you do it. You see things from a totally different perspective, right? It’s like looking at it from sideways or upside down and so on that one painting, I kept doing it, and then all of a sudden it was like, you know, I think it’s done. And that’s always a challenge when to know when to stop. Yeah. You know, uh, when I painted more, I would so often over paint, you know, and my wife would stay, stop. Don’t go back. It’s good like it is. I’ve improved, I’ve improved. But that’s still a tendency. But I’m much more aware of it now.

Alison: And I wanted to talk with you about boundaries.

Danny: Yes.

Alison: Because I think people, women that we talk to, have a hard time setting up boundaries that feel comfortable to them. Could you just talk about your view of boundaries?

Danny: Yes, yes. The way I look at boundaries, first of all, I guess we all need to set certain boundaries, right? Okay. And I look at that as sort of like, uh, when you have body surfers or surfers that are….and it’s a busy day out in the water. They’re going to set some boundaries so they’re not going to collide with each other or their waves are not going to come together. And I think that’s the same with with people, you know. And it’s it’s harder I think for and maybe it’s women are more so is maybe women are more giving in in general, I’m just generalization, you know, uh, especially and for me, to set boundaries, there’s a couple of ways of doing it, and one way I just don’t like and I’ve had this happen – is I’m going to set a boundary. People express it, I’m going to set a boundary with you or with that. And I don’t think that’s the way to do it. It’s a little harsh and it can be a little divisive, but the way I look at it is – if I express my needs or desires or wishes in a thoughtful, clear manner, I am letting people know in a way that this is my boundary, right? So if whatever they may be asking me to do possibly or whatever they may be doing, if I share my needs or express my needs, I think it’s a kinder, gentler way of setting the boundaries. And I think a lot of us, and myself included, sometimes we’re afraid to express those needs. Or maybe we, like you say, maybe you feel guilty saying something like that, you know? But I really think it’s more that when we do that for ourselves, we’re also letting others know, because a lot of times people don’t know that there may be intrusive or invading our currents or our ways, uh, so we let them know. But, you know, through a communication, um, if they keep doing it, which some people will, they’re overly persistent. Then we have some choices. You know, we can remove ourselves literally or physically, you know, uh, or express our dislike or as I say in the book, it in the challenging difficulties, difficult cases, we can choose to swim in other waters. Right? Again, using the wave, we can go surfing somewhere else.

Alison: Right.  We talked to so many women and people that, um, are torn between the caretaking and being totally available and boundaries, and they’re they that those two things. Do you agree that have become very mixed?

Danny: Yes.

Alison: I thought that your book was really great in sort of you, approach one thing and you’re very clear about options to help you through it. Yeah. You know, because I think we’re living in a very, um, it’s a challenging time.

Danny: Yes, yes. Especially now. Yeah. Especially now.

Jean: Talk about riding the waves. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I think women that have been mothers, now when you come into the empty nest now, you’re just finding out what your needs are.. Like you really, you just kind of are just taking care, taking care, and then all of a sudden, you get into an age where you can focus more on yourself.

Danny: Yes.

Jean: And you’re like, oh, you know what? I don’t think I enjoy that and I’m going to, you know, it’s like a whole new way of being expressing your boundaries. But something I love Danny, which made me feel good about the whole boundary thing is you said it’s a win win for both people.

Danny: I think so. I think I think it can be. I think it can lead to a deeper relationship or connection with the person. I really do. And a more authentic truth basis where each feels okay to express their views on things. You know, and it’s sort of interesting as you were sharing. There’s a little bit especially, uh, for women and being mothers, is that… Well fathers too, is the idea of enabling, you know, when we enable our, our children by, in a way, giving too much or doing too much for them, or we can be actually by doing that, taking away, you know, with their own life journey, experiences, um, development, independence and things like that. So in a way, when we’re doing that, we’re we’re invading their currents. It’s just sort of sort of the opposite. Right. But we do it. Why do we do it? I think mostly because of fear. You know, a lot of it’s because of fear. We’re fearful, uh, for them. And, uh, will it be okay? How will they be? Etcetera, cetera, et cetera. And so a lot of it is, is processing our own fears. Right?

Alison: Right, Very much. Danny, when you write these type of books, does it put pressure on you to be really good?

Danny: Pressure?

Alison: Yeah.

Jean: Great question.

Danny: No, um, I, I mean, I would obviously like it to be good, but I don’t think of it in that terms…

Alison: I mean for like you to be good. Like like you write this book that is so great, and your book about acceptance, does it put pressure on you?

Danny: Oh I see. To live it.

Alison: Yeah. To to always be living it. And what happens when you don’t?

Danny: Good question. Um. It doesn’t put pressure on me. Um, because I’m not holding myself out as an expert, and I don’t try to, but what it does, uh, is I can look to my own writings and try to live by that. Okay. So they’re they’re tools. Like, if I’m going through a difficult or challenging time, I might, might say, okay, well, what would I say in my book about that? Right. So I they become my own self-help guides. And I actually start by writing them in that with that feeling or that sense, so that I am exploring, uh, as I’m writing and trying to live as I’m writing and seeing how it works and what maybe doesn’t work. So they’re, um, they’re just an ongoing continuing means for me to live, I guess, a more peaceful, helpful and joyful life.

Alison: Yeah.

Danny: And seems to be working. Yeah. Uh, I feel I feel very blessed. I feel very, very blessed. And, uh. Yeah. So I’m glad that, i’m glad that the books, um, thus far have been, you know, nicely received and resonates… And I’m so happy that that’s resonated with the two of you as well, of course.

Jean: It really has. Can you share with us , well we know because we read the book, but can you share with our listeners your morning practice?

Danny: Sure. My my morning process, um, is upon out of bed. I get on my on my knees and say the serenity prayer. Um. Before breakfast or go in the next room and before eating, I go outside and I have this beautiful Olive tree, and I will put my arms up and say the serenity, Serenity Prayer again. And I will then offer and ask for guidance. Whatever I may be dealing with, whether you want to say God or Higher Power or nature…. Uh, I ask to be receptive to the guidance that may come my way. I may not know what it is, but I want to be available and accessible. So I start my day from a very peaceful place every day. And, you know, things can happen during the day, obviously, when I, when I when that happens, when I remember to unfortunately, I work at home, I just go up my olive trees right out there. I can just go out there again, uh,or go or take a walk or whatever it is. And when I’m saying, the Serenity prayer, what I’ve learned is to think about it more specifically. Like whatever things I may be dealing with, God grant me the serenity to accept what I can and  what I can’t accept, uh, what’s happening right now. Right. And the courage to change the things I can. So that in a way, what that sort of means is to acknowledge the areas where I’m powerless over, that I can’t meaningfully change, like a lot of what’s going on now.

Alison: Yes.

Danny: But courage to change the things I can, is like telling me what power do I have within that context to make things better for myself, hopefully for others, and think about those more specific things, you know, and the wisdom to know the difference is sort of like sometimes I don’t know the difference. Sometimes I don’t know whether I can have any influence. So maybe I’ll try it a little bit. But if I, if I sense a resistance, then I know that I’m overreaching. Then I have to go more into acceptance and to acknowledge I’m powerless over this. So that’s just my daily prayer, my most significant prayer that’s really helped me a lot.

Alison: That’s so wonderful. And I wanted to, um, talk about the chapter The Great Divide.

Danny: Okay.

Alison: Because we are in a time right now that feels that discourse has stopped between people with differing ideas or beliefs.

Danny: Yes.

Alison: And, um, I wanted to, uh, enlighten our listeners to like what you’re feeling about that. And what you’re thinking is, I thought that chapter was fantastic.

Danny: Thank you, thank you. It’s sort of interesting. I wrote that chapter, believe it or not, the genesis of it five years ago.

Alison: Really?

Danny: Yeah, just a little bit before Covid, because I sensed it. Even then, the divide, the divisiveness, you know, and, uh, I didn’t know where to publish it or what to do with it. But then I started writing the book. I started thinking, okay, if the LA times is not going to publish it, I’m going to publish it in my book. And that’s what and that’s what was meant to be that way. Um, but anyways, getting to the subject is. There’s there’s several things I use the word acceptance conversations in a very broad thing that the idea is if we can have what I call acceptance conversations with “the other side”, you know, um, and what what do those entail, uh, so that we can have some kind of connection or some kind of understanding? You know, if you look at, you know, you hear the two different worlds or alternate universes and I’m, I have two circles, if those circles could just merge a little bit. So there’s a little overlap. It starts with trying to maybe get to there. So how does that happen?..   It could be also with uh family members that are fallen, fallen out or friends or whatever, right? It doesn’t have to be the whole nation or universe.

Danny: Um, but one of the, one of the keys, I think in these conversations is we need to, uh, accept others as they are and or their views as they are. That doesn’t mean I agree with them or condone them, right, I just need okay, that’s what they are. And that they are not necessarily trying to harm me or hurt me. That they are more than likely serving their own best interests, as we often do. When I can sort of look at it a little bit from that perspective, it can be less heated, less argumentative. So these conversations are not intended to convince or to win your point. Once you start doing that, it’s not going to go very far. It’s to try to find some common grounds about raising our children, taking care of our elder parents, um, um, what we enjoy in entertainment, food, sports so that we can begin to see what I call the humanness in the other. We need to try to see the humanness in the other. And then there are other parts as I write about it. Another one is, we need to be civil, you know, and not loud and argumentative.

Danny: But another part is try to, uh, get a conception of what fears might be behind the views. Uh, it’s been established and there’s books written on it, uh, that people are not going to change based on facts because, there’s so many different channels and universes of facts right now. So discussing the facts or they’re misreading the facts or misinterpreting is not going to carry us very far. It’s more on the emotional, Intuitive level. So and maybe the fear level, if we can sort of understand what fears lie behind their strong judgments, maybe we can talk and share about those. So, you know, those are some of the things and they’re they’re not always going to be productive. Some people may not want to have those conversations. Um, but there are what they call bridging organizations. And there’s a lot of them. And I’ve gotten involved a little bit with them. And that’s what what their aim is, is trying to find ways to bridge the divide by having these constructive conversations, you know, and it’s beginning. It’s sort of like what I say in the book, uh, Lao Tzu,  A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. It’s either that or do nothing. Right?

Alison: Yeah, right.

Jean: And I think that feeling uncomfortable…. becoming Comfortable those uncomfortable conversations. Actually, they’re good in a way, good for our soul growth. Because  no one likes to have these conversations that make you feel, oh, am I being judged, am I right? And to really look at look at our beliefs… You know, and have humility like you, you talk about, um, and yeah,  you have so much wisdom in any one of these chapters.

Alison: I think that’s a perfect chapter to read before Thanksgiving dinner….You know, when you’re sitting down with your family, I’m going to, you know, and people, all different types…. I thought that chapter was great.

Jean: Yeah.

Danny: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. Uh, it’s just so important. And, um, but thank you, I appreciate that. It’s, uh, there’s got to be some changes, you know? And, uh, hopefully the more that we can, uh, as I say, see the common ground, see the humanity in the other, it certainly will help, because when we don’t, you’re not going to have a conversation. You know, it’s not going to happen.

Alison: No exactly. Right… Exactly.  And that’s where I think, unfortunately, we are at a lot of times, you know, where when you’re talking to somebody that maybe has a different idea or different beliefs, it goes from 0 to 60..it feels and I thought some of your tips were so great. And I was thinking about conversations I’ve had with relatives where I could have calmed down.

Danny: Yes. Right, right. Yeah.

Jean: And that was really a great, uh. I tried to make it more about me when I was reading your book. I didn’t want it to be like, see what you do… See, that’s what they do. And I really loved it because your book really let me focus on what I’m doing.

Danny: Wonderful.

Alison: And me which was great. And so it was a real gift.

Danny: Well thank you. I appreciate it.

Jean: I was focusing on you, Alison when was reading the book…hahah

Alison: She was picking on me.  hahah

Jean: That’s right.  hah

Jean: It’s so true… Those questions are so great at the end. And, um,  it’s just a beautiful, well written, wise, humble meaning.

Danny: Oh, wonderful. You know, it’s sort of interesting, I had a a friend read a draft copy of the book, and when I met with him he says, well, that’s a wonderful, intimate memoir. And I said, what? …you know, I didn’t think of it as such. But he, you know, everybody can interpret it. But he, and what you say, like the vulnerable, and the intimate and, um, uncomfortable with intimacy. The more I can be intimate, I think it’s better. I feel, you know.

Alison: It’ll be great, like, for your great grandchildren to have that.

Danny: Thank you.

Alison: It’ll be fun for them to get to know you through these words. And  I hope you find another box from 40 years ago with more writing in it….I would love that.

Danny: Thank you.

Alison: Danny, as we just wrap up, can you tell me what…  our podcast is called InsideWink…

Danny: Right.

Alison: What do you think insidewink means thank you?

Danny: I thought about that. And for me, um, I think it’s telling myself not to be so serious. Like, lighten up, because I tend to be really serious. Too serious. I’m smiling a lot because I just enjoy our conversation, but my tendency is, is to be a little too serious so that, the insight wink says, come on, Danny, lighten up. So I mean,that’s sort of like winking to myself.

Danny: And it’s and it’s so true…there was something I read, that said, don’t take all this too seriously.

Danny: Yeah.

Jean: Don’t take everything so seriously where you lose your joy.

Alison: Yes.

Jean: because then you’ve really disconnected from… So i love that you say that.

Alison: But it’s so funny, Danny. Whenever I’ve seen you, you always strike me as such a like a happy sprite. Thank you. I never see you as serious. Like you’re just always seeing…

Danny: I think it’s because you are as well. I think maybe.

Alison: Maybe we’re just goofy together.

Danny: Yeah. Goofy? Yeah.

Alison: But, um, I think that’s… I think that’s great. Jean will ask my favorite question ever.

Danny: Okay.

Speaker1: Okay. Do you prefer cake? Pie or ice cream?

Danny: Ice cream. I’m an ice cream guy.

Jean: What flavor?

Danny: Um. I like different ones. I like pistachio, coffee.

Jean: We love pistachio.

Alison: You’re fancy. Most people like chocolate, you know. So.

Danny: No, I’m not a, I like chocolate, but not for some reason for ice cream… Not as much. I don’t know why.

Alison: Yeah. Yeah. Danny, it’s such a joy to talk to you and just to have this time with you.

Danny: I thank you. Same. Same here. Same here. You two are doing so great.

Jean: Thank you. Your book is wonderful. It’s it’s very meaningful. And and, um, thank you for taking the time to write it and share your heart.

Alison: And I just want to put a little pitchfork to Seguda’s show…  that show is amazing. Is it called?

Danny:  Tragic magic.

Alison: It’s it’s absolutely beautiful. So if you’re ever seeing that coming around again, please go see it because you and your wife are a powerhouse of….

Danny: Thank you. It’s a wonderful show. It really is. Yeah.

Alison: Yeah. Okay. Well, give her our love. And we send you our love.

Danny: Okay. Thank you. Be well. Stay well.

Jean: You too.

Alison: Bye bye.

Jean: Bye bye.

Jean: He is so great. What a lovely man. Yes, because he’s done… Look at you.

Alison: I’m just thinking about our interview. He’s so… I just felt very. It felt very cozy to me, and.

Jean: Yeah, well, we both have met him before, so that was nice. But there’s something really light and bright about Danny, and I think it’s because he’s done the inner work at looking at parts of himself that, you know, don’t really bring a lot of joy and love to others or himself.

Alison: Right. And the book seems surprisingly simple and light. And then as you keep reading it, you realize, oh, I’m really getting something. Like I read a couple of the segments to Brady and I thought, listen to this. And he’s like, oh, mom, that’s great. Like it’s it seems like, um, like light in a way, in the very beginning. And then all of a sudden you’re in it and you’re like, wow, this is very powerful stuff. I really I can relate to so much of this. Yeah.

Jean: I think for me, one of one of the great things is that wherever you are in your thinking process, this book will meet you there.

Alison: Yes. That’s great.

Jean: You know, whether you’re like a longtime student of Self-inquiry and self, you know, awareness or you’re just starting to go, why is my life so, so hard?

Alison: Yeah.

Jean: So wherever you are, it’s a beautiful book.

Alison: You’re you’re batting a million today with your with your things.

Jean: look at you with your great questions.

Alison: I got a good question because I thought, God the pressure I’m not going to, I’m not even going to be nice anymore. Too much pressure, right. Um, well thank you. We hope we hope you go out. And buy, “The way of the wave”, because it’s just it’s really fun. It’s really great.

Jean: It’s a beautiful book. Thank you. Danny. Thank you. And thank you, listeners.

Alison: And thank you, Jean.

Jean: And thank you Allison.

Alison: Okay, bye.