Podcast Episode 62: Leon Logothetis

Jean : Well, we’re back in my closet again.

Alison : That’s right. It’s so nice in here, though.

Jean : It really is not.

Alison : It is. It’s. It’s so nice.

Jean : All right.

Alison : How are you?

Jean : I’m good. How are you doing?

Alison : I’m very, very well. Matthew’s visiting.

Jean : He is. And I’m having a great time. And what’s so nice is I love waking up and seeing him in the kitchen in the morning, and he’s making his coffee, and he’s like… And he doesn’t say hi. He gives me a little whistle.

Alison : I love that.

Jean : It’s sweet.

Alison : Your kids are great.

Jean : yes, so as are yours.

Alison : Yes. We’re very lucky. Um, and they’re kind people.

Jean : They are kind. And what a great segue into the guest that we are talking with today.

Alison : Ah, the platform that we’re on, mind, body, spirit suggested that we talk to Leon Logothetis and he is called the kindness Guy because he’s written so many books on kindness, and he has a beautiful story about all this.

Jean : Yeah. And I think it’s very relatable. Um, just about that inner void, that despair that so many people feel. I know I have felt it many times in my life and how to emerge from it.

Alison : Yeah. I can’t wait to talk to him because he’s had incredible journeys, he’s done incredible things. He’s traveled across country on $5 a day and met people. He’s done the same in Europe. He got a yellow motorcycle and went all over.  You know, he’s just, um, he goes on these adventures.

Jean : And he meets such incredible people that share their wisdom. And you know what makes them feel, yay! inside or inspired… So this is going to be great. I’m really looking forward to it.

Alison : And here comes Leon.

Leon: Hey, guys.

Alison : Hi, there.

Jean : Hi, Leon.

Leon: How are you?

Alison : Very good. How are you?

Leon: I’m good. Where are you?

Alison : We’re in LA. Where are you?

Leon: I’m in LA. Where in LA are you?

Jean : We are in Studio City.

Leon: I am just off Laurel and Mulholland.

Jean : Oh, wow.

Alison : All right, we’re driving up.

Leon: You’re more than welcome to come.

Jean : I live off of Fryman Canyon.

Leon: Oh, wow. Okay, great. I’ve probably passed your house many times.

Jean : Do you ever do the hike?

Leon: All the time.

Jean : Oh, wow. All right, well, let’s look for each other next time.

Leon: Or we can arrange to do a hike.

Jean : Or we can do even better. Even better.

Alison : You are actually passing Jean’s house when you do the hike.

Leon: Okay. Wow. Okay.

Alison : There you go. It’s great. We’re so happy to, um, to talk to you because I’ve heard about you for so many years, being the kindness guy…. And yet your newest movie, The Kindness Within, was so different. The beginning really was so… It was,  like we both just started crying right off the bat. That was so… Could you talk to our audience a little bit about, um how you started your whole process being, “the kindness guy and how it lead to being a movie?

Leon: Sure, absolutely. Uh, so is this live? Oh, you’re recording it?

Jean : Oh, we’re recording it.

Leon: Okay. All right. Okay. Um, so, yeah, I — The kindness within –  a journey to freedom.” Um, basically, as you know, I used to be a broker, And, uh, that was many years ago. And I quit my job and I started to travel the world relying on kindness. And that’s when I did the Kindness Diaries. Um, and I did all the things that kind of made me into the kindness guy, right? Externally. Made me into the kindness guy. Um, and you’d mentioned that The Kindness within was very different to the Kindness Diaries. Right. So The Kindness Diaries was about me traveling around the world on a vintage yellow motorbike. Um, relying entirely on the kindness of strangers. And it was kind of the happy go lucky side of me. Right. Which is is still, you know, it’s who I am. Partially. Um, but the Kindness within was kind of a deeper version of me, and it’s it’s another version of me, but it’s still me. So I ended up, um, writing a I was in my house in in Hollywood, not far from where you guys live. Actually, let probably less like a mile than less than a mile and a half from where you live. Yeah. That’s funny. Um, that you probably pass every day when you go over Laurel Canyon, to be honest. Um, and I found myself writing a suicide note, and I was in a really terrible place, obviously. Um, but I found the courage to pick up the phone and call my therapist at a random hour. It was, like, 11:00 at night. Because sometimes dark nights of the soul don’t happen on schedule. Right, right. Um.

Jean : or in just one night.

Leon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I called him, and he helped me immeasurably. Uh, obviously, I put down the note, um, and the next morning, I find myself at the Mystic Bookshop in Venice Beach when it used to be on Abbot Kinney. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I absolutely loved that bookshop specifically before it moved to to Main Street, but it was just a magical place. So I went there, I guess, to get some comfort. Right? And I randomly saw Yogananda’s book, autobiography of a Yogi. Now, I’d seen that book many, many times before, but I’d never picked it up. And for some reason I did. And I randomly opened it to a page and I randomly opened what looked at a specific paragraph. And in it he says to a soon to be guru, if you reveal God to me, I will follow you anywhere. And I had an epiphany. I was like, okay, I’m going to India to find God. And I’m not necessarily talking about the God that lives up in the sky with the big white beard. Talking about the universal energy of love, source, spirit, whatever word you want to use. Right. Um, and that’s where the journey of the film begins.

Jean : Yeah. Mhm. Yeah.

Alison : It’s, uh, it was so, um, I felt exactly like you. And so it was so close to me. And yet your journey… I’ve never done anything like that. So it was so interesting to feel connected to you and yet so different on that journey, how how did you change, like during that time? Because it’s only 90 minutes that you get to see. I wish the film was longer. Are you completely, are you are you a different person now? Like, I would think that sort of journey would have completely changed a person for the good.

Leon: Yes. Uh, look, the person that left India and the person that sits before you today is definitely different in many, many ways, right? Um, less in my mind, more in my heart, um, more connected emotionally and spiritually. Again, that doesn’t mean that it was a panacea to get on a plane and go to India, find God, and. Oh, okay. All right then. Everything’s fine now. That’s that’s not the way it worked for me. You know, I still have bad days. Yesterday was one of them. Uh, today is better. Um, but it’s a it’s a process, right? It’s like an an unraveling that gets us to where we ultimately want to be. And I think I’m on that that journey still. The movie helped immeasurably. I think actually, what actually helped in some weird way more than Doing the actual adventure. Although, of course, that’s really important was the editing process, because I had to watch all of these amazing people that I met and all of their wisdom again and again and again and again and again until it became part of who I am. So the first moment of the experience was great, don’t get me wrong, but this the moment of editing and the repetition, the good repetition. Because sometimes you can have bad repetition. Just turn on the news. Yeah. Um, but the good repetition stays with you, right?

Alison : Yeah.

Jean : It it really is about retraining our mind. And then as you first started sharing, leaving the mind and moving into the heart.

Alison : Mm.

Jean : And living your life from that. And and, you know, in this day and age, it’s, it’s really challenging because there’s so much out there that vies for our attention. And, and we, we sort of lose that the place of and I say holiness as in nothing’s lacking. Everything is beauty and perfect, whole and complete. Do you, um, do you have and and to your point also, Leon, it is a that’s I think why they call it a spiritual practice, because it’s just not like you do this once and I’m good. I’m done. You know, it’s it’s like brushing your teeth or vacuuming your rug. You know it… It’s something we have to dedicate our attention to is our inner world. Do you have a practice that you can that you can share with us, that you that helps ground you into your heart.

Leon: Sure. Um, so one of the things that I do, and I made a conscious decision many years ago, was to try my best and to commit to living from a place of love and from a place of compassion and generosity. Now, do I do that perfectly? No. But I have committed to it. So when I mess up, I’m like, okay, you made a commitment to live a certain way. I don’t think doing what you just did was probably the best thing to do. So you have to get back on the wagon, right? Okay. Um, when it comes to. So that’s like the macro thing, which is really important. You know, some people make a commitment and then there’s nothing wrong with this. Some people make a commitment to make as much money as they want. Great. Some people make a commitment to create a magnificent family. Great. I just made a commitment early on to live from this place to the best of my ability. Okay. Um, and from a micro perspective. Look, there are two things that I do every day that help me a lot. And the first thing you’ve heard many, many times, and that’s simply that I meditate. I don’t necessarily meditate just in one specific way. Sometimes I meditate with with no music, with nothing. Sometimes I’ll meditate with, um, a specific chanting song, sometimes I meditate with…. However I do it, I do that right. And I’ve done that for a long time, and that that helps. But I will say something else, which I do, which I think is, has helped me immeasurably. I keep using the word immeasurably for some reason. I have no idea why, but whatever.

Jean : It’s a great word.

Alison : It’s excellent. Yeah.

Leon: Is that I use music to regulate my nervous system and I do it very consciously. So, for example, if I’m having a moment, it’s not pleasant. For whatever reason, I will go through my playlist and I will find a song that will calm me down in that moment, and I will listen to it on repeat. I may have to listen to it on repeat for an hour. I may it may only take 15 minutes. And then it really kind of balances me and and calms down my nervous system. And it’s not always the same song. It could be a different song. Could be…. Sometimes I need an EDM song, right? Sometimes I need a very peaceful, calm piano song, whatever it is. But it’s something so simple. Next time you find yourself in a not such a great place, right? Obviously you can use music as well for when you are in a great place, but let’s say for not, you’re not in such a great place. Go through your list, find a song and listen to it for as long as you can for you to rebalance yourself. So, for example, I may be at like 95% anxiety, which is a very bad place to be. But if I listen to this song for 45 minutes, whatever song it is, I could go down to 50% just by doing that. Yeah, and it’s something easy that anyone can do, but it has to be on repeat.

Jean : Right, right, right.

Alison : Not just once.

Leon: Not just once.

Alison : Yeah.

Leon: As long as it takes to get you rebalanced.

Alison : That’s really interesting.

Jean : I think the same way..

Alison : My son does that… I think Brady does… I think my, I think my son does that because he’ll listen and listen and listen. And then I’m like, what were you listening to? He goes, oh, I’m just you know, I was getting into it for an hour, but it’s over. And then he’ll move on to something. I’m going to ask him. That’s really interesting. Leon.

Leon: Yeah.

Jean : Yeah – music absolutely has that power for me as well… Um, and I’ll listen to.

Alison : That’s really interesting.

Jean : Yeah, it it is. And I and I forget that. And thank you so much for reminding me about that because I love music and I, I just think the same ruminating the same thoughts, the same thoughts. And then I’ll catch myself and I’ll say, why do I feel so not inspired, or a little agitated or whatever the word, whatever I’m feeling, and then I’ll listen or I’ll hear something and I feel so much better.

Alison : It’s very smart.  Can you, can we just…. Okay, so—- what’s God?  Let’s just do it, Leon.  Let’s just do it. Come on.

Leon: Oh, wow. Um. Well, look what I noticed or what I realized in the movie in my trip around India was that you can’t explain God. You have to feel it. Right. So I think that’s a good starting point. So whatever I say to you is probably not going to answer the question, because it’s a feeling that comes from within you. Right, but I’ll try my best.

Alison : Great.

Leon: And I’ll tell you what. God is for me.

Alison : Okay.

Leon: Okay. It’s the universal energy of love. And it’s a vibration, a vibrational experience that once you’ve had it, you never forget it. And, it has to be felt. You can read the Koran, you can read the Bible, you can read every religious text in the world. But if you think you’re going to get to God through your mind, you’ll never stop reading because it will never happen. I don’t know. Did that answer your question?

Alison : That’s really great. And then on top of that, in in the movie, you say at one point, um, and the people you met are unbelievable. And I just fell in love with all the people. But at one point you say, um, I, I see I think he was a Buddhist because you’re talking about not there is no God. And you say, I see that you are God. So if you saw that he was God, didn’t you already know God?

Leon: That’s an excellent question. And the answer is, yes. Right. We can have moments of that and not be as connected enough to be able to have it guide our lives. Right. And maybe that’s where I was. And in the movie, that’s really no one’s ever pointed that out. But it’s a very, very good point– in the movie, i think it’s very close to that scene, and I want to give away the moment, but it’s very close to that scene where I’m walking and I say with the voiceover, I say, I felt like I was a breath away from God. So what I mean by that is that each person I met got me closer and closer and closer. So in that moment with the Buddhist, I had met God, but I wasn’t aware of it at.

Jean : Right, right. So when we when that movie was over, Allison looked at me and she said that she, she said that very quote to me… We were sitting right over there, and I said, I said yes. I said, because when you spot it, you got it.

Leon: Mm. Mhm.

Jean :  Right. So, so in my um my belief is, is that the universe is a is our outer world is reflecting back to us. Right. So if I see you. Wow. Leon, you have something… You have this quality that I’m that I desire. You know, it’s like if I, if I see it in you, it is already in me. And we’re removing the blocks to that awareness.

Leon: Yes. That’s that’s beautiful.

Jean : There are so many The way in my training with A Course in Miracles is through forgiveness because we judge ourselves. So the judgment is, I’m not that-  I’m judging myself, right. And then someone comes along and gives that back to us. And you say that too Leon, the greatest gift we can give another is, is to help, another to be seen, and that fuels them… So we are in this together.

Alison : Yeah.

Jean : We are. We are co-creating our entire life experience. And and your movie is exquisite in showing that it. We were so taken with your movie.

Alison : Do you think that then your kindness books you had met God… You had that… Is the beginning. The beginning of like you’re on the elevator. You’re on the ground floor there, because if you have come to the idea that for you is that feeling of connectedness and love. Did you feel that during your travels?

Leon: Look, I absolutely did feel it. Did I feel it the same way that I feel it now? No I didn’t. And I was on the elevator floor at the beginning and on the ground floor with the Kindness diaries. Right. And all the stuff I had done. And I think this was something, something different. And that’s why, as we started the podcast, you mentioned these are two different things.

Alison : Yeah.

Jean : And that’s because the first one or yes, the happy go lucky guy, but the first one was really the ground floor and it was like an unraveling, uh, as the as well. Let’s hope the elevator doesn’t unravel. We’ll use another analogy. Yeah, it was like a, you know, the elevator going slowly, slowly further up, further up being more connected. More connected.

Alison : Right.

Alison : And you, you seem right now so open and so loving. We’re living in a very, um, distinct time where I think some of it there’s a perception of cruelty. So how do you keep your heart from being pained?

Leon: Yeah, that’s a very good question. And I am aware of what’s going on. It’s highly troubling. I’m a student of history, and I see patterns, and there is a lot of cruelty. Um. How do I keep my heart clean? The truth is, I don’t watch the news.

Alison : Yeah.

Leon: People always tell me things. They tell me things. But I don’t watch the news. Because when I turn on the news, it’s. Sometimes it feels like I’ve been punched in the stomach.

Alison : Yeah.

Leon: You know, the level of the level of what is going on out there and not just what’s going on out there from the top, but the people that are allowing it to go on and the people that are…. How do I say this? Egging it on. And, i don’t want to call them minions, but I can’t think of anything else. The minions, I would say to those people, go to Auschwitz. Go to Auschwitz. Because when we live in a world devoid of empathy, that’s what happens. And if you go to Auschwitz, it it changes you at a cellular level. Look at history. It’s interesting… I don’t talk about geopolitics, i don’t talk about politics. But because I’m a student of history. When I see people doing what they do, it just drives me insane.

Alison : Yeah.  It’s it’s truly, truly heartbreaking. And my, my father was, um, a journalist, and his whole mission was a mission of good and finding out and, and I think now he’s passed away and I think now we live in such a world. I don’t know that he could recognize or what you’re saying… He would recognize it so vividly that it would break. Really just break his heart. And, um, I have a child that came out as non-binary, and I have to say, I feel frightened for that child. And, um, I love them with my whole heart. And I think people make a snap judgment on how they present. And so I found your movie so hopeful. Um, do you what do you find hopeful besides music and meditation? Is there is there actually, um, a place or a person or something that you kind of gravitate to? Because I showed your movie to my family because I just wanted to stay in that sort of feeling. Is there anything like that for you?

Leon: Look, there’s a lot of hope out there, right? We can look at the darkness, but there’s still hope. Like in the Second World War, there was a lot of darkness, right? But there was also a lot of hope. And ultimately hope won.

Alison : like what, though? Like what? When you say that, like, what can you. Can you tell me what your referencing.

Leon: Conversations like what we’re having right now.

Alison : Gotcha.

Leon: Uh, books that espouse love and books that espouse resolving these types of issues that are going on right now. Podcasts. Um, lots of things. There’s lots of hope.

Alison : It makes me feel good.

Leon: Let’s not forget that there’s lots of hope. We watch the news and we think there’s no hope. But there is a lot of hope.

Jean : Yeah.  There is. I think you’re being a light in the world when you when you hold the door open for someone, when you’re when you appreciate a friend or you reach out, you know- that I think we’re all I think there’s so much hope and and we’re really asked to turn the gas up.

Alison : Yeah.

Leon: Do you know what people do.. mistakenly?  They take those who have an open heart and a kind, and they look at them as if they’re weak. Right. Okay. And they think, oh, you know, because you have an open heart and because you’re kind. Um, we can walk all over you. I would say to those people, remember Muhammad Ali. Yeah. And I’m really saying this to us. I and the people that are listening. Muhammad Ali was a man of love. A man of kindness. A man of service. Not a perfect man. No one is. How many of you would mess with Muhammad Ali?

Alison : Right?

Leon: So when people take our kindness and compassion and generosity as weakness, I would say to them, there is a line that I would suggest you do not cross. I will be kind. I will be compassionate, and I will be loving. But don’t see that as weakness, because I assure you it isn’t.

Jean : Mhm. Yeah.  It’s like…do you know the author Anita Moorjani?

Leon: I’ve heard of her.

Jean : She had a near-death experience and it’s amazing… And she’s amazing. And she wrote a new book called sensitive is the new strong.

Leon: Okay.

Jean : And it is about our sensitive nature, our vulnerability. Much like yourself, Leon, a man that is really,  you’re being very open and vulnerable with your journey and and going, you know, this happened and – and the power of and – and I was able to move through it and and be of ultimate service –like your your film your books are, are truly of service and your talks.

Alison : And what I like about you is you seem like a tough nut.

Leon: Do you know what? Yeah. I mean —.

Alison : Like, in the best sense …Like, you’re not, you’re not like, you’re very different than, um, than someone that typically, you know, you just, you know, you you don’t seem like you take a lot of guff and it doesn’t seem like… And it seems like you just want to get to the point, which I really, I really Enjoy.

Leon: Thank you.

Alison :  do you think, like, what’s next for you? Do you think like like, are you going to go along this path or like where where where is your heart and mind taking you?

Leon: So remember the scene in Rishikesh when I was sitting opposite NandiniG at the statue of Shiva, right? And I sat there and I said to her, I said many things, but one of the things I said to her is, look, you have what I want. You clearly have what I want. How on earth do I get that? And she turned around and she says, don’t do, just be. And it was so profound in the moment. It was profound. But listening to it 500 times made it more profound. And I came to a realization with this movie that I was not going to do anything except focus on this movie and promote this movie. And when I knew when it came to me of what I was going to do next, I would know. So as it stands now, I have no idea.

Alison : I love that.

Leon: And I think that’s a beautiful thing. It’s a beautiful place to be.

Leon: Yeah, yeah.

Jean : It’s very fresh.

Leon: Yeah, it’s crazy right? It’s like. Because that wasn’t me. In the old days, I would doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. And I’m proud of the success, but I overdid it.

Alison : Yeah.

Leon: I really overdid it. I remember I once, and this sounds insane, but it actually happened. I did 47 speeches in 42 days whilst driving from LA to New York. That’s insane. And you wonder why I had a meltdown? Yeah, I was running away from the pain, even though I was teaching people to to face it. I myself was running from it.

Alison : Yeah, yeah.

Jean : Oh, and another great quote you say you offer in the movie. You say the kindest man has to start being kind to himself.

Leon: Yes.

Leon: Yeah. Yes.

Jean : So great.

Leon: Mhm.

Leon: That was a beautiful moment. That was a beautiful shot. The cinematographer did a great job there.

Jean : Yeah.

Alison : Well I wonder what would they get out of it?

Leon: I mean, they got a lot out of it.

Alison : Yeah.

Leon: The experiences I was having, they were having too.

Alison : Yeah. That’s so great.

Leon: The travel, the wise people, they were watching the edit as well. Right. They were having the same look. They had their own unique experience. Yeah, but they were there experiencing it all.

Jean : It shows how when you say yes to a project, you know, there’s there’s something so much bigger going on with the soul.

Alison : Yeah.

Jean : Like you’re a little human. So I’m going go and make a movie and I’ll sign up. Oh, I got a job. I’m going with this guy over to India. And meanwhile, your soul is is being transformed in in such a beautiful way.

Alison : What are you proudest of.

Leon: In my life? I’m proudest of my relationship with my partner. He is a magical human being. It took a long time to get to that.

Alison : That’s beautiful.

Leon: Yeah. Um. I’m proud of the movie. Immeasurably. Again, I use that word a lot. Yeah. Um, I’m. I’m proud of a lot of things. I’m proud of my relationship with my dog. He’s an, he’s an interesting fellow. He’s got an addiction to many things. Um, but he’s an interesting fellow. Um, I’m proud of a lot of things.

Alison : Yeah.

Jean : Good.

Alison : I love that the first thing you said was a connection…With another person, because I think it’s… That’s the stuff that, um. I think that ultimately that’s the stuff that soothes us and comforts us the most. So that’s really beautiful. Is your dog there?

Leon: He’s outside playing with the ball.

Alison : Oh good. Good on him. Yeah. You know, we normally end our podcast. The name of our podcast is Inside Wink, and we normally end by asking our interviewees, what do you think or what does it mean for you? The word inside wink?

Leon: Um. Being, I guess, Divinity.

Leon: Being a being aware of what we are. And sometimes it just takes a wink for us to wake up. And I’ll tell you a quick story about synchronicity or a wink, the divine wink, let’s call it. So this wasn’t in the movie. We tried desperately to put it in, but it just didn’t make any sense. We couldn’t do it. Um, but after 2 or 3 days in India, I wanted to give up. In fact, I did give up. I wanted to go home, and I was on my I was in a hotel in Rishikesh, up in the mountains, and I decided that that was it. It was finished after 2 or 3 days. So I was walking literally to my director’s room to tell him that I was going home. And I saw this door that was open on my way. I was like, that’s interesting. I’ll go in there. So I go in there and it’s a it’s like a little library inside this hotel. Not a particularly magnificent library, but whatever. There were 20 books, 30 books, whatever. And I walk in there, and I love books, obviously. And what do I find? Another of Paramahansa Yogananda’s books, this time called, The Divine Romance, which is all about finding God. That’s the entire book. So I said to myself, okay, I’m not going home.

Alison : Yeah.

Alison : That gives me chills.

Leon: Yeah, it was crazy, right? Literally, I was on my way to the room to go home.

Alison : Yeah, that is perfect.

Jean : What a great godwink for you to go. No. Turn it around.

Alison : You’ve got to do a director’s cut. You’ve got to release this stuff.

Leon: The problem, the problem. The reason why we didn’t do it is because obviously, there were no cameras. When I had that moment, and it was all happening inside me, so we ended up filming it after the fact. But it didn’t feel right.

Jean : No, no.

Alison : But I love that when everything. Just you just. It’s such a direct like, hello?

Leon: Exactly.

Jean : But but that was great. And we need those little taps on the shoulder. Yeah.

Leon: Absolutely.

Jean : Yeah. So true. Okay, so I’m going to ask our final question. Uh, what’s your favorite cake? Pie or ice cream?

Leon: Hmm.

Leon: Rice pudding.

Alison : Oh, that’s what we love.

Leon: I love my grandmother. Used to make rice puddings. We would go to her house every Sunday and she would have rice pudding for dessert. But she knew that we loved rice pudding, so she would leave them out in the kitchen. So the moment we walked in, we would go and, like, eat five rice puddings.

Alison : Oh, I love that. No one has said that. Yeah, yeah,

Jean : We. Have to add that to our list.

Alison :  We do. We definitely do.

Jean : Pie. Ice cream or rice pudding?

Alison : I would vote for that. You are such an interesting, wonderful human. And I’m so glad that you got to share this, this, this, this time with us, because… And I can’t wait to see what moves you next.

Leon: Well, thank you so much for having me. It means a lot.

Jean :  many blessings. You and your life is a beautiful blessing to countless people.

Alison : Yes.

Leon: Thank you.

Jean : Thank you.

Alison : Thank you. Have a great…we’ll See you on Fyrman.

Leon: Yes.

Alison : Bye.

Jean : Wow. I, I really felt very, um, akin to this man. You know, I felt he was, um, not pontificating yet, he was very wise. He’s sharing his his journey and had so much to offer and will continue.

Alison : I was just saying this to you though, but that reminds me of you in a way. Like, you know, you don’t pontificate and you’re very wise. And I just love when we’re able just to get into a conversation with somebody. Yeah. And what I like is, um, he just seemed like a regular guy in a hat.

Jean : Yes. And that’s what makes it so relatable. Yeah. And about. I think kindness is the answer. And I think we are being asked all the time now… Are you going to choose love and kindness, or are you going to choose fear and anger or and not that that has its place. You know, I don’t want to say that we should never be fearful or angry, because I certainly have my moments, But it’s, you know, the power really is in being kind and starting with ourselves.

Alison : I love that you say that. We’re being asked now. And I think that’s so true. I think, um, so many times within a day you can make, I, I can make a choice to be kind or just to be like a crab. And I’m really siding more towards laughing more and loving more, you know, and trying to be on that side of the fence, you know?

Jean : Yeah. I mean, because it just, it’s it’s contagious.

Alison : Mhm. Mhm. And his, his movie is just.

Jean : Oh I think it should be seen in schools.

Alison : Yeah. And the fact that the title says um, A Journey to Freedom.

Jean : I wanted to ask him about freedom, but we didn’t. But I was watching the clock also… And um, again, another great person that I could have spent the afternoon chit chatting with.

Alison : So please check out. Please check out his movie. Please go to his his website. It’s in our little blurb. His name is Leon. Leon Logothetis. So it’s just look how how you spell it. And just really, he has so many books out. He’s just he was a really wonderful. So we hope it inspired you.

Jean : Yeah. And we know you’re kind. We know that about you. And we are grateful for your listening to our podcast.

Alison : That’s right. Thank you so much. Have a have a beautiful day. Bye.

Jean : Bye.