Podcast Episode 55: Jean Trebek & Alison Martin interviewed on This Is My Silver Lining

Alison : What are you whispering? What are you saying? We have a treat.

Jean : We do. We have a treat because we are going to showcase an interview that we actually were the interviewee, right? We were not the interviewers.

Alison : With, um, Ingrid and Kathleen.

Jean : Right, And they have a gorgeous podcast called , “This Is My Silver Lining.” And I love the title.

Alison : Me too.

Alison : And this was aired on their podcast, but they’ve given us permission to air it on ours, just so that, I don’t know, maybe you can get to know us a little bit better. And they were just lovely too. And they’re, they’re doing they’re exactly in our wheelhouse of doing exactly what we’re doing.

Alison : And so…

Jean : Sharing, sharing inspiring stories.

Alison : Right. So you we hope you enjoy us. Yeah.

Jean : And if you don’t, just push delete.

Alison : Yeah. Or listen to them then. Thank you. Bye.

Ingrid: I’m Ingrid Hall.

Kathleen : And I’m Kathleen Merrigan.

Ingrid: Welcome to, This is My silver Lining, the show where we pull together the strongest threads of our humanity courage, kindness, compassion, and gratitude.

Kathleen : Our guests explore their toughest moments and how rising to the challenges led them to discover unexpected opportunities, connection, and community.

Ingrid: My daughter started a new school a few weeks ago, her third in four years. She’s a confident, brave eight year old, but naturally she was nervous about making new friends as I dropped her off on her first day, holding back my own tears, I looked at her new classmates and wondered who among them will become her friend and imagine the joy, laughter and beauty they will bring into one another’s lives. The French American writer Anais Nin once wrote, each friend represents a world in us. A world not born until they arrive. And it is only by this meeting that a new world is born. Today on this is my silver lining. We are delighted to speak with Jean Trebek and Alison Martin, to explore friendship and how the combination of two friends energy ripples out into the world to serve the greater good. Alison is a prolific actor and writer. She won an Emmy Award for the children’s TV series, A Likely Story. She has had numerous guest star and recurring roles in comedies such as Grace and Frankie, The Big Bang Theory, All Rise, and Mad Men.

Ingrid: And she’s also been featured in dozens of TV ads. Jean is a Religious Science practitioner, Reiki master, and sound healer. For the past 15 years, she has taught the principles of Religious Science and the application of various spiritual techniques such as meditation, sound healing, and affirmative prayer. Jean is the widow of Alex Trebek, the globally revered, long time game show host of, Jeopardy! Jean is committed to numerous philanthropic causes, including education and crisis intervention. After Alex’s death from stage four pancreatic cancer, Jean established the Alex Trebek Fund to accelerate critical pancreatic cancer research. The deep friendship Jean and Alison share has carried them through many of life’s deepest sorrows and the highest peaks of joy. It also led them to pursue their creative passions together through Insidewink, a website and now podcast for sharing what is good in the world. Jean and Alison have interviewed some of the most fascinating thinkers and practitioners in the fields of spirituality, healing, empathy, and the neuroscience of happiness. It’s a really terrific show. Jean and Alison, thank you so much for joining us on, This is My Silver Lining.

Alison : Wow. We sound so nice and good, Ingrid.

Ingrid: We are very important.

Alison : Right, Very fancy.

Ingrid: Well, thank you both so much for joining us. That was…. I don’t think Ingrid even, you know, scratches the tip of the iceberg with that, with that introduction and all that you have done.

Alison : You got the whole iceberg in there, Ingrid.

Ingrid: Listening to Jean, I’m like, she sounds great.

Kathleen : But she is great.

Jean : And vice versa. And and you know, what you wrote about our friendship is so true. It’s yeah, it’s, um, I do think that’s like, what a marriage is about, you know, coming together and being an even greater force for good in the world.

Alison : Yeah. Well, that was definitely you and Alex.

Jean : And you and Dan, right? But yeah.  And like what you two do, you know Ingrid and Kathleen.

Ingrid: We wouldn’t be here without this amazing friendship that we have. Kathleen and I, 100%.

Kathleen : Absolutely. I think one thing I’ve noticed, too, there are so many parallels between how we both came to this podcasting world and our, um, motivation to kind of shine a light on the best of the human experience and celebrate the good in the world. So I’m wondering if you two dear friends could tell us how you each have or how you each what you think about when you hear the saying that every cloud has a silver lining, and maybe how those have appeared in each of your lives?

Jean : Wow. The big one for me was going through Alex’s chemo treatment. Knowing Alison was there was wonderful, but also the way she navigated my relationship to Alex… She didn’t overstep into it, and yet she knew when to hold back a little bit. She knew when I really needed more support and I and I couldn’t ask for it, but she intuitively sensed that… So I think the knowingness of someone, the intimacy grows in a friendship when you’re in a crisis situation. So I am forever grateful to this woman. And not only that, but the great joy we have together. So it is, it is going into dark nights of the soul and huge joy. And yeah, I mean, I think Silver Lining is such a great perception because if you can always ,if you can take time to find the silver lining, that’s really a high level way of being in the world.

Alison : And I think when someone invites you in to be present during a crisis, I actually think it’s an honor, because so many of us are not invited in, and I think we’re trained to have this front and everything’s fine and don’t ask for help. And so when someone invites you in, or you happen to be standing in a place where you are in… To have that is truly like a gift. So I think that’s sort of the silver lining. You know, it’s so funny because there were so many times these past few years that Jea, helped me with stuff that was going on in my family, and we were just saying, I think the thing that the most important thing when someone is in a cloudy situation or in a dire situation is just the act of actively listening without judgment. I think so many people want to give you a million things to do or tell you, you don’t need to feel that way or tell you it’s all fine. And the great thing about Jean and a few of our friends, right, are they just will be present and listen and hold you in, in a moment of love. And I think that’s the silver lining, that even through it all, like tough stuff, like you have this presence of love and that’s sort of the silver lining. I mean, that’s the whole thing about life, right? That we’re going to go through… Crap happens.

Ingrid: a lot of it. Right. And and who do we find in those moments? Who, who, who does the Universe send to us to help us through those moments that otherwise might never– either they’re in our lives and we discover something about them through that moment, or new people come in, which often happens.

Alison : Yes.

Kathleen : Sometimes I think, you know people, I should say, sometimes I think I don’t really know the best thing to do in that situation, or I worry I’m not doing enough or I’m not doing the right thing. But it’s such a good reminder that just being there is really so important, because it certainly is for me in those situations. But for some reason, when I’m on the other side and  I want to be helping… I always feel like, oh, I want to be doing more. And then, you know, but just just being there, just just show up. As one of my friends always says, just show up. It’s so important to remember.

Ingrid: I guess I want to probe a little bit with you, Alison, this notion of like, optimism and positivity in the world and finding silver linings. I read one of your posts on the Insidewink website, where you tell a story about how your then 24 year old daughter moved home during the pandemic, which of course is a shared experience for for so many parents. And you were walking by and you just you asked her to be more grateful. I’m not sure if I’m going to get all the details right, but she kind of challenged you on that and was like, I am grateful just because I’m not like, super positive about this shitty pandemic. Like I am grateful.

Alison : Well, the pandemic, a lot happened in my family for us during the pandemic. Em who is the person you’re talking about came out during the pandemic, is non-binary, and we’re all living together in this very small house. And that was a huge learning for me.   My child, Em,  does not want to be told to have an emotional response, which is what I think I was told. Well, be happy, don’t worry. Em doesn’t want that. EM wants me to allow their emotions fully and presently, and allow my curiosity to really guide the conversation, as opposed to me fixing or being wise. And as EM has come out to us, which was a big change for my family, i realized I had a woman that, um, worked with parents whose children were just coming out, and this woman said to me, her name is Veronica.. she’s on the East Coast. Fantastic. She said, you’re letting your steaming lack of understanding get in the way of your love. And I thought, wow. I was like, well, what is non-binary? I don’t even understand that. What is that? And I realized I just love Em. I just love that person. And I love who they are and their authentic self. And I now am very careful to say, would you like me to offer something? Would you like me to offer a solution? And sometimes Em will say, no, …just  hear me, and it’s taught me a lot how to be more present in the in the world. I think it’s a very interesting thing because my parents used to fix your parents try to fix or or like squelch down or say, get over that. Do you know what I mean? Right.

Kathleen : Right. You’re fine. You’re fine.

Jean : I think the whole part of feelings and my children are a little older than Alison’s..They’re 34 and 31…. But to Alison’s point, and your child EM taught me also, I will say to my Emily, do you want to be held, heard, or hugged? RAnd that really helps because that honors what she really needs. Because I want to I want to jump in and make sure I help her fix her, and that when we leave where she’s feeling so much better. And sometimes it’s just not that, right.

Alison : Sometimes it’s just not that. So I remember that post. Like it’s so funny. Like when I think back to that time, it was when I think back, there was so much going on for Em then, right? And must have been frightened, scared in a moment of transition, not knowing what they were going to do, how they were going to be accepted…. We were in a pandemic, they’re stuck at our house, their younger brother is there, my son…. It just was… And their bravery to come out in a way is inspiring to me. You know, it’s never really, they’re very smart, kid. They’re really, if you met them, you’d fall in love with them. Like, they’re just, they’re just great. So. Yeah. So and it’s interesting that you bring that up because I was reading that the other day thinking, wow, look at that. Like Em was really teaching me something there.

Ingrid: Maybe I can ask you a question about miracles, since the book that brought you together initially Was a book entitled, A Course in Miracles, which is a book from 1976 by Helen Schucman. And the underlying premise of that book, as I understand it, is that the greatest miracle in life is the act of simply gaining a full awareness of love’s presence in a person’s life. So that leads me to ask you, do you believe in miracles? And what makes a miracle?

Jean : Well, that’s such a beautiful question, Ingrid. And I definitely believe in miracles. I feel, and through the teachings of A Course in Miracles, that a miracle is a shift in your perception. So if something’s bothering you, it’s usually because you’re judging it. So to recognize that you’re in judgment and then to just go, you know, I want to see this differently. And sometimes it happens automatically. Sometimes it takes a little time. But that sincere desire to see, to see the love within a situation, it brings forth miracle. And the miracle is peace of mind. You know more joy. And that energy builds and it starts reflecting that in your outer world. So it starts within, the shift of perception, and we know we’re off of our love perception when we’re not feeling happy or when we’re feeling fear or something.., and and that’s okay, it’s not judging that either. You know, it’s just going, okay… Wow, I got so much fear around this, and just not judging that, just being like, oh, you have a lot of fear. Okay. Take a breath. You know and like to to what, we are coming full circle to your question, like finding the silver lining, finding the love in there…. So what do you think?

Alison : So how do you want me to follow that? I mean, oh, yeah, but she’s, I think, a miracle….is…..hahahahah

Jean : eating a box Donuts and not gaining weight.

Alison : That’s exactly for me. That’s exactly it. I’m like, duh. Yeah… Chocolate is a miracle. I mean, yes, yes to all that. And I think that the miracle has is such a loaded word. Right. Because people think in the Virgin Mary has to land or you see something or like, you know what I mean? But those can be, um, can be just small wonders, you know, or small moments of gratitude or small moments of feeling very connected. I think those are like miracles.

Jean : And this is a miracle. Yeah, I mean the fact that we can be together on this, on this technical device, that I don’t even know how it works. The fact that we figured out how to get through Chrome.

Ingrid:  my daughter asked me yesterday, how does the text come to your phone? And I was like, that’s a daddy question.

Jean : My mother would say, um, how was your flight? Because she lives in New York and I live in LA, and she’s like, so tell me about your flight. And I’m like, mom, it was a miracle, right? I got from LAX to JFK in the big metal tube. Yeah.

Ingrid: Seriously? I mean, do you look at planes and wonder, like, every once in a while, like the at the airport?

Alison : It’s such a massive, heavy thing, and yet someone thought of that. Yeah. Someone said, you know let’s do that.  I have a friend and they had to have a medical test, like an ultrasound or an MRI, and they said someone thought of that. Like someone said, I’m going to send a sound wave through you. You’re not going to feel it, but I’m going to see your insides-   People are miracles, right?

Kathleen : Like, I have to say that for our listeners who can’t see us all right, now that, um. Well, first I should say that Allison and Jean are together, and it’s adorable. They’re sitting next to each other, but you two are laughing and looking at each other. It’s like it’s.. just seeing i could see your friendship right there on the screen. And it’s so wonderful. And I’m wondering, could you tell us about maybe how I believe you met in a book club, but tell us about that first time you met and kind of how your friendship grew from there.

Alison : Okay, so Jean and I were in a book club, our friend Maureen Muldoon, she was running this book club on, A Course in Miracles, and we met and Jean owned a flower shop, and I just knew that, you know, this was Jean, and she seemed lovely. And we’d say hi and chat and I had no idea who she was. You know, it was just a whole bunch of people that Maureen knew. And one day, um, Jean was sitting down and we were chatting and catching up, and Jean says, you know, um, I really want to talk about the, um, the Emmys, the Daytime Emmys or the nighttime Emmys. And I was like, oh, in my mind, I’m thinking, that’s interesting. And she says, and did you see what Alex wore? And I’m thinking, what the hell. I like, you know, but you know, the tie and and and then she was talking about his speech, and I turned to my other friend, and I said, man, she really likes Alex Trebek. Like, you know, how does she feel about Pat Sajak? You know what’s going on. And so here’s this person that was completely unaffected by any of that, and we just started becoming friends. And I was amazed that I had no idea that this person was somehow connected to that other person, that you would have a lot of thoughts about. Do you know? Jean is so down to earth and funny and smart? She makes me laugh harder, I think, than anybody, right? We laugh. We laugh till we, like, it’s sick. She cracks me up and slowly but surely Jean took over the Course in Miracles at Jean’s house. And then, slowly but surely. I don’t even know. It just felt like this natural progression. We just sort of found each other again this lifetime, you know what I mean? Yeah. What do you think? Like, I don’t even know what you thought of me when you saw me?

Jean : I thought Allison would ask great questions during the course of miracles. The reading, when we were reading the text together and we were like six women dedicated. Every Monday morning, they would meet at my home and we would read this text. And this is a huge book. It’s like two inches thick and and it’s dense. It’s written in, in a very in a Shakespearean language. And it’s very, um, it’s not easy to decipher, really a lot to swallow. And yet it’s it’s very beautiful. Again, the premise is not to judge and to forgive. And Allison would ask such poignant questions. And I just remember thinking, wow, she’s so smart. And seriously, I did think, really think that. And then Maureen told me that she was an actress and and I just thought-  I did see her once on TV, on a commercial, and I don’t watch a lot of TV, and I thought, that’s, you know, she’s becoming my friend. But I do think it’s when I told Allison I was working on a film about forgiveness. So I have a friend, his name is Ike, and We were going around and filming people that that had forgiveness lessons, and something happened and we got to interview some great people. And we changed directions. And so I said to Allison, wow, we’ve got all this footage of really beautiful testimonials about how, you know something happened … Life didn’t go the way I wanted it to. And I had to forgive a certain person and and what forgiveness meant. And Alison was there, sort of. Yeah, I can see it, let’s do something with that. And so that became, I think, our project and as we got to know each other through that project, she truly is one of my most dearest friends.

Alison : And but you know what’s funny? Remember that first secret Santa that we had at your house during the course of miracles? Yeah, we had a Secret Santa, and you got to pick out, and I got Jean’s gift that she was giving to anyone. And it’s a heart, a floral heart that I still have. How many years ago is that? 15. 20. 20. 20 years. Hanging in my room and and so, like, you know, sometimes it just is meant…. Do you know what I mean? Like, sometimes you go like. Like we barely knew each other then ,I think it was like the first times I’m in Jean’s house and I got this heart like… Don’t you think that’s kind of cool? Yeah. And then just, it’s just still hanging.

Jean : And I do remember there was one time, well alison was very dedicated, she would show up all the time Monday. There was a couple of times when she couldn’t show up, either for an audition or something. And I remember she’s the one person that I was like, oh, Alison’s not here in the morning. So, I mean, I love all the other ones, they were great. Um, truly great, but I it was something that Alison would bring to the group and I was like, oh, okay, well, we’re great. And all the other women are amazing. Yeah. So.

Alison : And we just kept laughing a lot. Yeah. Through it all, like all the things that now we’ve gone through. Like when I think to myself. All the stuff that we’ve gone through. And it just we would laugh and just. We were just goofy together.

Kathleen : Jean, can I ask you a question that just kind of came to my mind earlier today when I was thinking about this, but I was thinking about owning a flower shop and just how, like, I was driving by a flower shop in my town. And I was thinking how, like, you really see people at their happiest and at their most sad moments. And like, I mean, 17 years is a long time to own any business. Is that…. Tell me about that. And if you if you felt that way. I know it’s also a stressful business and working with perishables is always, always an added stress too. But tell me a little about that.

Jean : Well, I did it with my very dear friend Janet, who we are still to this day super close and I adore her. So to your point, it is, flowers are such a celebration of life and life as you both know, as our listeners know, there are highs and lows and it’s just everything– flowers just celebrate life.  You know that this physical incarnation, it has a time frame like flowers do– you know they don’t last forever. There’s a circle of life. And, um, I think that’s one of the reasons I do love flowers is to me, they just symbolize the circle of life. And wow, that that was another whole chapter of learning to just honor people where they’re at. So there were many celebrations, many birthdays, many holidays that we were super busy. You know, there were funerals and things like that. So it ran the gamut. I looked back, that was such a honor to run that with my my friend, Janet. I love her, and she was a great teacher and still a very dear friend.

Alison : Did you make deliveries?

Jean : Yes, I made deliveries. My husband made a couple of deliveries. I would ask him while on his way home.

Ingrid: Premium delivery, they thought won the lottery .

Alison : Wait a minute. He would go to the door with the flowers.

Jean : He had 1 or 2 deliveries for me,I rarely did that, but I was like, could you just drop this off on the way home from the studio? And I don’t know, people must have thought they won the…

Ingrid: The publisher’s clearing house. Yeah.

Kathleen : Or something amazing…. Ed McMahon is sick today. Here’s Alex Trebek.

Jean : Does anyone tell you that you look like Alex Trebek?  hahah

Alison : Are people ever sad to get flowers? Like, did you ever feel or is it always like they open the door like, ohhhh.

Jean : I think it’s always oh yea!!. Yeah.

Alison : I love that.

Jean : And there was one time that I delivered flowers and I was, um, going to a hospital, and the lady asked me to read the card. It was an older lady in bed. And at that time, you could go into the hospital room. Now, you know, you have to leave everything, like at a front desk. But I went in and, um, and I had to read this long card from…. And thank God  i wrote the card out, at the flower shop, I wrote the card out and I thought it was a very deep, meaningful card that I was reading to this woman in the bed. And she had some type of like a spiritual book from Buddha or Buddhism or something. And I just remember reading this card and getting choked up. And so the flower shop was great. It was it was beautiful.

Kathleen : And I think it ties ties to sort of what you’re doing now with, you know, your focus on healing. And, um, I know you’re a professional religious science practitioner and, uh, Reiki master and sound healer. So you really have focused on healing for so much of your career. Can you tell us sort of, when you realized that that was your focus and how you came to focus on that?

Jean : Well, I had I had a brother growing up who passed away at 20 years old in a car accident. So I think when you have a traumatic childhood or something that happens, that’s not the the quote, normal way of the progression, you know, so I think for a lot of people, not all people, but it it sort of makes you wonder if you will, like what’s going on, why why him? Why? Where is he now? And I just remember being very fascinated with metaphysics in my late 20s. I also had a really big eating disorder. Um, that was very hard for me to get over for a long time. So my brother’s passing in the car accident, my eating disorder, really challenged me to look for something beyond my personality self. To be more in this world than than than just the obvious. So I think I directly experienced healing from Reiki, from a person that did Reiki on me, and I was released from the addiction of purging my food, and I was so grateful, so grateful for that release that I wanted to help people in that way. That was the catalyst.

Ingrid: So beautiful to know. Take your own experience and infuse it and take it to help others.

Alison : Jean always tries to uplift people and that’s like a healing in itself. Jean, for a while, uh, wanted to work in a department store, and so she took, like, a little Christmas job in a department store, and women would come up and say, oh, I feel like I need creams on my face, and Jean would say, you don’t … You are so beautiful.

Ingrid: The management was not so thrilled. hahah

Alison : Because Jean’s whole thing is about, and that’s like, that’s what she does to all her friends. Like it’s like, so that healing thing I think was just it’s just a part of her daily way. She moves in the world, you know.

Jean : You too.

Ingrid: I was going to say it feels like the way you, you both and certainly together are moving in the world. And I wonder if you could take us into InsideWink, as it were, and that creative project that really is born of of your friendship. It didn’t start as a podcast, but it it became this beautiful, beautiful podcast. So tell us about that.

Alison : We started from what Jean was saying about the forgiveness movie, and then we tried to think of a place that all the interviews that Jean and our friend Trish Geiger had done and Trish, Trish was great.  And she did all the, she’s just a bright, energetic spirit. And Jean had all these wonderful interviews and we couldn’t figure out a place to, like, hang them. Like, where are they going to live? And we thought of ideas for movies, but it all seemed very forced and weird. And there were a lot of these talking head movies out there. So we thought, well, maybe we could do a website and house them there. And, um, we worked with Patti and Steve setting up the website, and they did a great job, and the website was there, and it was a lot of work and…

Ingrid: So then you decided to make a podcast, which is, you know, easy breezy. hahah

Alison : You know, I think there were so many moving pieces in the website. We had all these writers and all these people submitting and Patti and Steve and us and then the films that we wanted something that was just kind of us that we could write, that we think that we could sort of manage. So I sort of do the best I can with the editing. We have Eddie, who still helps us, and Emma, who helps us with social media, and that’s it. It’s really just the four of us, which is so much…. It’s just a smaller thing. Do you think. Do you think that’s it?

Jean : Yeah. I think what you said is absolutely the journey of insidewink and, um, you know, it is a labour of love. Yeah. We don’t have any sponsors, so we just… And also I’m busy…. Allison’s super busy, so we just wanted something that that wasn’t overwhelming, that we didn’t lose the joy that we we felt… Oh, I’m looking forward to this. Rather than, oh, God, we still have to work on this. We wanted to make sure the energy behind this uplifting website stayed up, not  heavy.

Jean : Like, I kid you not, we have the nicest, uh, interviews.  It’s just, it’s so uplifting. So I still get nervous doing the interviews. I think one of the things I admire and love about Alison, I guess love and appreciate about Alison, she she does have this great driving force in a way… Like she’s… I don’t want to say the alpha, but she she does, no, no not pushy, but I think also given that she has an acting background, she easily engages with people in a very heart centered way. I’m a little bit more of the observer, like pull back and I, I think that it forces me to grow, to step up and ask questions. And Alison has such a good read on me. She knows when I’m. Oh, I feel like Jean wants to say something. So yeah, because I do enjoy being more behind the scene, but I am enjoying this whole process of interviewing and talking with these great people.

Alison : And Jean has always, um, we’re so different that our questions are always really different. Do you find that between you two?

Kathleen : Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah. We can we can relate to just about every single thing that you’ve just said. Like it is… It is such a labor of love. Right. And if if you can’t approach and the whole point is to be positive in the world and tell these great stories, and we too have met such unbelievable people who, and there’s no way we would.. We would never have met you if we weren’t doing this. So it’s it’s such a gift.

Jean : I have to say, when I saw these two women are doing,  “My silver lining”, I right away thought, what a great title. Yeah.

Kathleen : Oh, thank you.

Jean : that is so in alignment with what we’re doing.

Alison : And I think, I think there’s just such room for women, you know, that are maturing and friends and, um, doing their own thing. I think that’s like it gives me chills the fact that you’re doing it. I wish more people would hear this and say, hey, I’ve got a friend. I could talk to people because I think all these voices I think are, are creating a shift. I really think that.

Ingrid:  I totally agree with you. What this is all about is having more conversations with people, with strangers, with or deeper conversations with the people that you already know, to better understand their life’s experience. You know, we very often go back to that quote from Robin Williams, you never know what another person is going through, be kind and you just don’t know. And the magic is in the discovery. So I quite agree with you. I mean, having more women do this and have these conversations and men as well, of course, is is really additive. There’s a lot of noise out there. There’s a we were told by any number of people like why would you do a podcast? It’s oversaturated. There are millions of podcasts. They’re like, how many listeners are you going to get? And I don’t know… Of course, we’d love to… You know, everybody wants to go viral…. Everybody wants hundreds of thousands or millions of of listeners. But we know we’re doing a good thing. The people who do listen tell us the out of the woodwork, people we’ve never encountered come to us and say, like, I heard that episode, like, that’s really great what you’re doing. So there’s a reward in that.

Alison : And our guests seem to have fun. And I think, well, that’s good. You know, if they’re only if their mother or sister listens, I’m like, happy.

Kathleen : Exactly. Yes.

Alison : You know, we had fun, and I feel like I’ve learned so much. And yet I think Jean and I talk about this all the time. Everybody says the same thing. You know, it’s all boils down to love, compassion, kindness. It’s just so moving to me, you know?  Miracle.

Ingrid: Yeah. And it helps you realize that we’re all, you know, even though we’re saying we might not have met someone. They’re so different than us that. Then once you start talking, you realize that you have so many similarities that it really brings… I think helps to bring people together.

Alison : And I think we’re inundated, you know, as we all, everyone says we’re inundated right now with such disparate views on TV news. And it can be so frightening. And I think, you know, I think the world is actually a place of goodness and learning and opportunity to to teach each other the meaning of like, loving each other. I understand everyone has very different beliefs and there’s a lot of stuff going on right now, but I think we all want basically the same thing. We want to be heard and seen. We want to be treated in an authentic, kind, honest way. And if you have a different belief than me, I think a more positive choice is to listen. You know, I don’t know, just, you know, to uplift, I think would be the thing. You know, and I think that’s what you guys are doing and that’s hopefully what, you know, we’re doing.

Ingrid: Definitely. Do you want to talk about the power of thoughts, Kathleen.

Kathleen : Well, so I know that was in, um, episode that I had just listened to that, uh, about where they were talking about the tapping. One of the things that, that you were talking about is just that your thoughts have power and how to try to change. You have to be careful about what you’re thinking and how how to actually control that and change that and make sure that we’re thinking positively about ourselves and about others. And so I wonder, how you both stay optimistic and grounded and if you have any practices, do you meditate? How do you think about that power of thought and keeping your thoughts positive?

Jean : Well, okay. So yeah, thoughts are really powerful. I don’t think people really realize that. We think that I can be thinking something negative and it doesn’t affect me. But if I’m looking at someone and going, oh, you’re such a loser. It’s a boomerang effect to me. We’re first and foremost souls that are vibratory beings, and we we emit this feeling, you know, and thoughts have have a feeling to them. So when you are thinking negative, it’s to really catch that and to go, why am I feeling so sad today? You know. What am I? What am I thinking?  and it’s challenging because this world is very distracting. It’s it’s pulls you out, and you always think it’s something outside of yourself. And and it is something that I’m, I have to really be conscious of every day. My thoughts, it’s not like, oh, I’m always in gratitude. And no, I because I am sensitive, I, I need to prime myself every morning. So I don’t really meditate per say, but I do read the course of miracles, which just  reminds me. Okay, I’m in charge of my thinking. That’s what I’m in charge of. I’m in charge of how I want to perceive the situation. That’s what I can… And it’s sort of when I do, when I do that, my day Does unfold with more flow. Is it always goes my way? No, no definitely not. But I’m a little more buoyant and and and I feel more grateful. And I feel that is a gift to everyone around me.

Alison : You know? And I think too, that when we say positive thoughts. Right…. I think for me, I’m trying to move away from that because, I know thoughts are very powerful. But I think A Course in Miracles, for me, that line it’s either love or a call for love takes away the judgment of positive and negative, which I think for me, I get trapped in sometimes. Oh, don’t think that that’s a bad thought. And then I can either get down on myself or I. So I’m really trying for the past few years, trying to focus on it’s either love or a call for love. So when I’m having a feeling that would be considered negative and not positive. I try to think so, what is the call for love here? What is that person looking for? What am I looking for? And then it kind of removes the judgment of positive and negative because, I think sometimes that’s hard… Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like.

Jean : I will just go, wow, Gene, you have a really strong judgment over that. Yeah. And I try not to judge that. I just go, yeah. And then go to that.. I need to love that part of myself that is thinking that.

Alison : And it’s like what we were saying before about Em. Right. That, um, you know, wanting to be able to experience all these thoughts and feelings, get them out, not judge them. And I hired a therapist when you used to say and put them over here and then let’s, like, look at them like we’re in a lab, you know. And I think that for me, it’s so hard because, I think I live in a very judgmental world.

Ingrid: what a great way to think about it.

Alison : Yeah, good. You’re bad. You’re wrong. You’re right, you’re fat.

Ingrid: You got it. You didn’t get it, you know?

Alison : Yeah. And and trying to live a life that an authentic life of of being kind and loving in that kind of arena has moved me to stop judging those thoughts. Does that make sense to you? Do you know what I mean?

Ingrid: Oh my gosh. I mean, I think this I think what you’re talking about takes so much practice and active… I don’t know if this is the right way to put it, but active intervention, because we can just gravitate to the negative. There’s a self-help book that Kathleen and I both read years ago called, Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway. And one of the there’s so many things in that book that I think are resonant and so incredibly helpful. But one of the things that she really pauses on is, why is it?… Just think for a moment…. Why is it that when you have a situation, the and you tell someone what’s going on and the immediate reaction tends to the negative, as against the positive, like  regardless of circumstance, like let’s just say like there’s a 50/50 chance of positive or negative. Why do we automatically gravitate to the negative and kind of belittle the folks who gravitate to the positive? Like, oh, you know, you’ve got rosy colored glasses on.

Kathleen : Like like saying like, I’m sure I won’t get that part. Like, oh, it was- I think it went well, but I’m sure I won’t get it.

Alison : I actually think it’s in our like, this DNA. Right? So like when we were walking around, you know, as Neanderthal, you know, hairy beings, you know, we had to focus on the scary, you know, look over there. I think it was almost a survival. And I think that part of that lizard brain is still there, and that the classroom that we’re in is somehow figuring out how to let that reptilian, primitive brain go. And we don’t really talk like that to each other anymore.

Jean : Like, it almost feels poisonous, actually. Literally. I’m like, oh, angels… I’m like, I, I feel heavy and not great… You know, there’s always a difference of opinion, but it’s that great Rumi quote that, you know, “beyond right and wrong, I will I will meet you there.”  or something like that.

Alison : Yeah. That’s right. Yeah.

Alison : I love that. Yeah. That’s so that’s true. I mean, I think that you’re right. It’s a lot of catching yourself. And there were plenty of times that, you know, we don’t do it. And that’s why it’s good to have someone or a friend or a partner or a pet that you can kind of talk to and be like, oh, you know, I’m frightened or I’m scared or I’m angry or I’m frustrated and have someone say, you know, I hear you, I hear you, and that’s all. Those are all valid feelings. And yet, you know, can we bring in some light into that? Because I think the whole key of why community is so important.

Ingrid: I feel like it’s hard to have this conversation with the two of you without taking a pause on and talk about grief and how we process grief. And you both experienced deep losses. And, um, Jean, yours had the added layer of being quite public. It’s not often that, you know, you’re you have a loved one who’s going through cancer, and the rest of the world knows about it and and very well intentioned, i’m sure you had all kinds of outpourings of support and help from folks from all over the world because Alex was so beloved. But tell us a little bit about and this is for, for for both of you… Can you give us your thoughts on on grief in the context of the conversation we’ve been having about managing our negative thoughts, our feelings of loss and compassion?

Jean : Well, there was this beautiful saying that I think Queen Elizabeth the Second said when Prince Philip passed away. I’m going to paraphrase, but it really spoke to how I felt- is that where there is great love, there is always grief, because this world, as we spoke about before, isn’t isn’t a forever existence, you know? And I think my biggest takeaway is how precious life is. And for me, the grieving process is it’s still there. Someone said it’s first the absence of presence and then it’s the presence of absence. So for Alex, his- I do think about him a lot still. I can’t even… Doesn’t feel like he’s been gone almost four years. But I feel his Presence, not all the time, but certainly when I’m in a more quiet space and I really desire to connect with him, I right away my shoulders get a little tingly or I’ll get a little emotional. I have his photo on my desk right now.. So I, I see him and talking about him is really beautiful because, it’s ongoing. You know, you just get used to it. And there are there are days that I miss him more than other days… And there’s no recipe to grief. It’s as our A person, a beautiful person that we interviewed yesterday, Chaz Ebert said, it’s very individual. So it also depends, I think, on on the relationship you had with that person. Mm. What do you think Alison?

Alison : I love you.

Jean : I love you.

Alison : It’s okay. You know, it cracks open your heart. Grief. Yeah. And yet, you know, a Jill Bolte Taylor, a woman that, um, Doctor Jill that we interviewed, she had a stroke, and she lost the power to use part of her brain. And, um, her fate… And she she’s a neuroscientist. She’s just amazing. And discusses your right side and left side, and one is just completely ethereal, and the other is, uh, work and very tactile and very human. And that her favorite emotion she felt after having this really life changing experience was grief, because it’s so intense. And as Jean says, a sign of love. And it kind of can make you sick. And it can, it just lets it out. I don’t know. So in some ways, you know, I’ve, I’ve grown to admire the emotion of grief because it becomes meaningful. It’s a very, very powerful thing. And I think when my father died, many, many, many, many years ago, like I’ve lived most of my life without my father and I would just before this, I was just saying to Jean, you know, I wish that I could have known my dad as an adult at all. Like, I wish I could have known him. And that’s grief. I’m not crying. But there’s a moment of grief, and it’s. It’s okay. Like, it’s like an opening to love. So, you know and my mother was very much in Jean situation, like a young widow and watching someone maneuver that from a child’s viewpoint, and then as a friend viewpoint, you just really see that, you know, it’s just part of this and, you know, there must be an opportunity in that for growth then, you know, so…

Jean : That’s the biggest thing I think too, is, is the the growth that happens.

Ingrid: What do you think for you, your biggest, biggest changes have been.

Jean : With Alex not being in my life, it’s definitely being more responsible for more of the day to day things because, he took care of all that. We had a very traditional, old fashioned — the man goes to work, he makes the money, the woman raises the children and has the dinner. So that is how we operated very well as a couple. And then with his transition, I had to take over managing the finances, managing the house, things that I was like, oh, there was a sprinkler system?  What is this?  A pool system, you open the cover when it rains, like….

Alison : Yeah.

Jean : So because I was in a way because of Alex’s job and when the kids became when we became empty nesters, I, I really could delve into more of the spiritual world. And now it’s taking all of that spiritual knowledge and actually applying it to the everyday, ordinary life. And I know he’s with me and I know he’s going, you can do this, and don’t get overwhelmed and get out of your head and stop doubting yourself. So I think that’s the other thing when you lose a spouse, after we were married almost 31 years, I knew him even before that. But, there’s another part of you that has to emerge. And that doubt, like I’m like, oh, is this– I’m not strong in this area, and so having beautiful friends like Allison, you know, sort of buoy me as I go kicking and screaming into things that I don’t want to do.

Alison : Yeah, that’s a lot. It’s a lot. You know, it’s a big change.

Jean : We have a minister friend who would say, oh, that’s another AFCO. And it means, the acronym is –  Another Fine Growth Opportunity.

Kathleen : I like it.

Ingrid: I think we all need to think that. Yeah.

Kathleen : Well, thank you for sharing that. I know that’s not easy to talk about..

Jean : I don’t mind talking about it, it just does bring up… you know…

Kathleen :  of course. Of course it does. Um, and you’re helping people just by talking about it,

Jean : And myself.

Kathleen : That’s wonderful. Um, I hadn’t thought of it that way, but, yeah, you’re also helping people through, um, your Foundation. Could you tell us a little bit about the work you’re doing through your Foundation?

Jean : Well, it’s called the Trebek Family Foundation, and Alex and I started it like 15 years ago or something like that. And, um, you know, we don’t have a specific, um… Oh, we we only focus on education or we focus on childhood illness. You know, we we sort of are a big arc of just uplifting where we where we feel inspired to. Um, right now we’re very dedicated to Helen Keller International, World Vision, Hope the mission, which is our, um, homelessness here in the Los Angeles County. Uh, so so we’re sort of in very different places. We do a lot of work in Harlem, New York. That’s where my son Matthew lives. Emily, my daughter, she loves,  Baby to Baby. And her alma mater of Campbell Hall – in low income families. So there’s many, many different areas that we love to support. And, uh, it’s just a beautiful, actually extension of Alex’s heart and his great spirit… That’s all about giving back and and not really seeing others as less than but seeing just, hey, you know, we can all give each other a hand up.

Ingrid: You know, I listened to a speech, actually, you both spoke at Fordham when you received a Founder’s Award. Um, I think your son Matthew went to Fordham. And one of the things that Alex said was, if you have compassion in your heart, everything is possible. And I wonder if we could close this out by talking about the importance of having compassion and and just asking you to share with our listeners how how you think we can all find ways to be more compassionate.

Alison : I guess it’s, um, knowing that actually the love that I feel for Jean or Dan or my children, Brady and Em,  that love is the same love that I could feel for anyone if I opened up and allowed myself to actually be and see them in their shoes and in their life. And sometimes I have met people and I think, oh man, that is not my person. And then you see that you you never know what’s going on, you know. And you see them and then all of a sudden you, like, fall in love with them because you realize, oh, that was totally a story I told myself because of my error thinking. And, you know, I can immediately change that. And I think that for me, I really try to remember that and see people the way I would want to be seen the first time. You know, I’m I’m loud or whatever, or, you know, there’s sides of me where I, you know, be abrasive or loud or opinionated and yet, like, I’m very soft and and a little frightened and tiny, I feel tiny. And so maybe that’s part of it. And I want like, so I would like people… I want to give honor them by allowing them… i’m going to think positively about them first off.

Jean : We don’t know what someone is going through,  at all.. Ever.

Alison : No.

Alison : And I just take it upon myself now, and I think sometimes it drives my kids crazy or sometimes they like it. I will talk to like everyone and ask them how their day is going or what they’re doing or who they are, or, and my kids will be like, everybody in that elevator, like, did you And, like I’ll be like online and see like online the other day with Brady and I’ll be like, hey, I like your shirt, and we started talking and this woman was between jobs and we were talking and I said, well, you know, maybe you could reach out to this thing or that thing. And Brady’s like, what are you like, how do you do that? Like, mom, you know, and I’m really trying to make that effort because, uh, Chaz Ebert, who’s Roger Ebert’s wife, which is, you know, um, she was saying that the next step when you have compassion is kindness, which is really the act of doing something. So, yeah, I think that’s I think that’s where I’m trying to step towards. Right. What about you?

Jean : Well, yes, Everything you said.. and you know, when I think of the word compassion, and this is exactly what you said, it’s that –  do unto others as you would have done unto you.

Jean : And I,  do think just acknowledging someone is is huge. Just saying, ” hi” to someone in the market. Uh, we interviewed a lady that has these cards that says, “you matter” and she leaves them around everywhere she goes. And, you know, it’s such, it’s so simple. It doesn’t have to be a big deal. You know, you you don’t need money to show compassion. It’s just a smile, holding the door open, asking someone if they want a drink. So I do think compassion is what the soul really … I cannot think of a more compassionate person than my friend Alison sitting next to me, and I’m also, I just am so grateful that we have this website together And your website too–  I mean podcast, right. that are generating acts of compassion . But, you know, going back to thoughts, it is that, those thoughts of kindness, you know, and it’s and it’s or just our verbiage.

Alison : Yeah, exactly.

Jean : My goodness, we really put ourselves through the wringer. So thank you Ingrid and Katherine for saying..

Alison : That’s right. We’re doing our best.

Kathleen : Absolutely. That’s all we can do. It’s all any of us are doing. Absolutely. Ladies, thank you so, so much.

Alison : Thank you guys so much. We wish you lived nearby so we could go out.

Ingrid: Wouldn’t that be awesome?

Kathleen : All right, be careful what you wish for, right?

Alison : I know we’re kindred spirits. You guys are so wonderful and sweet and so gentle. Thank you so much.

Kathleen : Thank you so much.

Jean : Thank you both.

Kathleen :  that was fabulous. I feel like we made two new friends.

Ingrid: I don’t think I’ve ever laughed that much on on one of our episodes. And we talked about this before, before recording. If you listen to their show, you can’t not have a smile on your face. They laugh all the time. Their friendship is really, their friendship is infectious.

Kathleen : I think it’s also there is something about and we should think about this, because there is something about seeing them together in the same room and a dynamic of, you know, you could see their sense of humor and how they play off of each other and answer each other’s questions or kind of nudge one another when when one person might be better suited to answer a question. So that was really nice to see, too.

Ingrid: And I don’t know this for certain, and I meant to ask, but the way some of their episodes started, it really does feel like some of their guests come over, which is just it just lends a different kind of intimacy and engagement for the conversation. So as wonderful as this technology is and it is, you do lose something from it. But what a beautiful conversation and a lot for us to think about in terms of the power of our own thoughts. Pause and think about the power that you have on the conversations you have in your own mind about yourself. That negative reel that says you can’t or you shouldn’t, and those judgments that you then transfer onto others. It doesn’t have to be quite like that. I really appreciate that. So Kathleen…

Kathleen : Thank you so much. It was another great, great hour spent together and making new friends.

Ingrid: Excellent. Until next time, keep looking for those silver linings.

Kathleen : Thank you.

Ingrid: Bye bye. Thanks for Thanks for listening to. This is my silver Lining- with us, your hosts, Ingrid Burchinal and Kathleen Merrigan.

Kathleen : This show is edited and produced by the amazing John Cor at Wayfare Recordings. And our original show art is by Alyssa Love. We hope you enjoyed this episode. If you love hearing these inspirational stories, please follow, rate and review our podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Ingrid: Please join us again next week when we’ll be back with a new episode. We’re always looking for silver linings, so if you have one you’d like to share, let us know. You can always find us on Instagram or on our website. Thisismysilverlining.comm. Be sure to check out the links and resources in our show notes.

Kathleen : Have a great week! And until next time, keep finding those silver linings.