Overcoming Fear – A Guide to Freedom” is an intuitive life purpose coach. He has studied every aspect of personal and mindset development, while moving through every imaginable hardship and difficulty, turning that knowledge into a life-changing and transformational program. www.rogerburnley.com www.rogerburnley.com

Alison Martin: What are you doing? What are you revving up for?

Jean Trebek: Just getting my energy going.

Alison Martin: You’re doing it. You’re doing it. We’ve heard our theme song, and we’re all ready.

Jean Trebek: We’re very happy. Yeah. We’re going to listen to Roger Burnley. We had a wonderful talk with him. He wrote the book Overcoming Fear, which is so apropos right now.

Alison Martin: And I want to say that he channels a being…Called Wilhelm.

Jean Trebek: I think is that he started automatic writing, which is when you meditate and just open yourself up to see if you can start writing something. And, and then he realized that he that stuff was coming out in the writing and he, he had the thought or he heard in his in his mind that it was his higher self. But that might have been difficult for him to understand.

Alison Martin: So he named this other entity, his higher self is named Wilhelm. And his book is so interesting because you really hear two distinct voices when you read it, don’t you?

Jean Trebek: Right, Right. You hear the human right and then you hear the higher wisdom. And it’s a great they’re a great team and it’s a great read. It is a great read. It’s easy and it’s so applicable, right?

Alison Martin: Yeah. And each little lesson and chapter I love because Wilhelm will say something and then Roger is like, I didn’t believe this at first. Like he’s so like, wow, like how I would be, which was, which is great because he’s very accessible and very vulnerable. I really enjoy talking.

Jean Trebek: I really enjoyed Roger as well.

Alison Martin: All right, let’s listen. Yay! Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, good. Here we are.

Jean Trebek: It’s so nice to meet you, Roger.

Roger Burnley: Thank you. You as well.

Jean Trebek: Really, really is.

Alison Martin: We’ve read your book.

Roger Burnley: Oh, wow.

Jean Trebek: And listened to your interviews and a lot of your YouTubes and your messages from. Is it pronounced? William.

Roger Burnley: Wilhelm. Wilhelm.

Alison Martin: Wilhelm

Roger Burnley: Wilhelm. Yes.

Jean Trebek: So anyway, we’re really grateful that you’re taking the time to join us.

Roger Burnley: Thank you so much.

Alison Martin: I think what I enjoyed the most about the book is how vulnerable you are.

Roger Burnley: That took a long time. And I have to say, I called, I said I was the reluctant mystic because it had been years. And I and it got to the place where I said, okay, well, my Wilhelm said, You can no longer do this. You must speak. You have to write, you have to bring this out. And I love your I love the title. I just paid attention to this, the title of your podcast, Inside Wink. That is so great because so many ideas come to me with that name.

Alison Martin: What do you think it means insidewink?

Roger Burnley: Looking inside our consciousness of everything that’s going on and you’re giving people a preview, that’s what you’re doing.

Alison Martin: That’s right. That’s very good. And we also think it’s something about like seeing the Namaste. My truth sees your truth, right?

Roger Burnley: Yes. Yes. That’s good.

Alison Martin: Um, can you tell us a little bit about the transition from not writing the book to writing the book and what that was like for you?

Roger Burnley: It was torturous.

Jean Trebek: Was it?

Roger Burnley: Yeah.

Alison Martin: Good. Good way to start.

Jean Trebek: Because writing a book is not I mean, for some, you know, some people it is easy. Other people it can be quite arduous.

Roger Burnley: Oh Cam who contacted your site for me,…it wouldn’t have happened without her. Because I knew I was meant to do this. I’m getting this guidance talk about it. People are going to be moving through fear. You understand this. Please give them some information. I go, no, I can’t do that because I’m very introverted, which doesn’t make sense to people, but that’s just who I’ve been. And so, Cam would send me messages almost every other day. How much what have you written? What have you written? Because she was editing and putting it all together and that’s, that’s how it came out so well. Um, and I had to keep, you know, she’d say, take some time and put it on your calendar so you can get it done. Yeah, I had it on my calendar. That didn’t mean I was going to do it, right? And it’s that the vulnerable part because I said, you know, if I write this book, I’m going to have to tell everybody what I’ve been hiding for 20 some years. And that was the part that was uncomfortable. But also the urging, the information that I knew was going to be viable for the world. Now, I had to do it. My need to give something back to the world outweighed my fear of being seen. Basically, there’s something I talk about all the time. I remember Jim Carrey saying a long time ago, I remember watching, listening to him and he said, the problem with most people is they don’t want to be seen.

Jean Trebek: Mhm.

Roger Burnley: Right. And that, that just hit me right in the heart because that, that was what I was doing. And so now I want others to be seen. I want them to own who they are. My entire mission is about the way that we move through this shift in our world – is when more people understand their importance and what they’re here to offer the world. Because we all have something. It just looks different, that’s all.

Jean Trebek: So where do you think that fear comes from? The fear of not wanting to be seen. Does that link into self-worth or what?

Roger Burnley: It’s programming. It’s generational programming that we all have. It shows up in different ways. It’s showing up in mass now, which is why we’re having the kind of chaos that we’re experiencing in the world. This is what happened. Um, let me go back. Let me go back to tell you how this kind of came about. The book was the first thing in 2019, and so it was released in 2019. We started much earlier than that, but we finally released it in 2019. And I just knew something was happening that I needed to speak about. Well, actually, I knew in 2016. Let me go back a little bit further because I started talking about it. Then I started receiving different kinds of messages. And then I, I started writing about things that just were new to me, talking about, um, I started talking about racism and misogyny. That’s what started coming through because these are the things that you’re going to deal with in this world that you’re moving through. And I said, okay, fine. And then in 2020, um, the messages started to change. In February of 2020, I had gone to a workshop with a mentor that I was interviewing him basically because I thought I need somebody to help me with this.

Roger Burnley: And he was he was great. And so right after that, I thought, Oh, great, now, now I’ve got clarity and I’m going to go and do this. Couldn’t do it. Then the pandemic started and then everybody was focused on that. I’m still knowing it’s so much more than just the pandemic. So my, um, Wilhelm kept saying, You’re moving through a restructuring in your world on your planet. And I said, Okay, I don’t understand. Nothing’s going to be the same. You’re going to see unprecedented events. You’re going to see things that you’ve never seen before, and it’s going to feel a little chaotic. But you’re moving through something. You’re going to have to take down the old stuff so that you can create something new and you’re all existing now to bring in this new world. And you’ll do that by how much you choose to honor yourself, how much you choose to honor who you are and your individual path. And so I said, okay, that makes sense. Now, that was 2020 and this was the crazy part. 2021. I just go out for a walk. And I have my earbuds in and I’m just walking, listening to music. And I hear we gave you everything you need to know in 2012.

Speaker4: Wow.

Roger Burnley: That was the most insane thing I’ve ever heard. And then I came into my home and I go to my computer. I’m just guided to go to my computer. Look at I opened up a folder that said Wilhelm that I didn’t even know how it got there. I didn’t even know what it was…why, why it was there and why it was separated. Because all of my writings I put under any advice for today. But this was this one folder that just said Wilhelm and I opened it up 2012. And then it got. Then it got crazier. Then it said told me… we gave you all this information because it’s going to help so many. And then we said, if you meet somebody and if we gave you a message on their birthday, it will resonate for them. And what we’re saying is that we want all of you to connect to your eternal nature, to know that you have this path that you’ve always been on. And it’s just you find out at different times during your lives and also in your on your planet. Your planet is moving through an evolution. And then they started telling me it’s going to be going this long. Then they said the United States would lead the way. Didn’t understand what that meant either. And then they started showing me the energies of the United States when it was formed, when Pluto was changing. I go, Oh, okay.

Roger Burnley: Then I started looking up. Well, that’s why they kept saying that. And then they said, a Pluto return. No human has ever done that because it takes 248 years. So if you look at when the United States was formed and the ideals that we said as a country that we were going to do, that hasn’t happened. And so now they’re saying you’re going to redo that. You’re going to have basically a reckoning of sorts where you come to see that all of you need to be honored and that they kept giving me so much. They said, first of all, women are going to play the biggest role. Women are going to be the most because the feminine energy has been ignored on your planet forever. That’s what’s meant. And so this is what’s changing now. But you have people who won’t want to change. So you’re going to struggle a little bit and they’re going to be those who will hang on to what is old. And you have to go forward and give what is new. So challenging. I’m sitting on my bed one day because I didn’t want to do a live channeling. I didn’t want to do it. I would get stuff and I would record it, you know, on my recorder. But that was it. I wasn’t going to do this in public, rather.

Roger Burnley: And so in May of 2021, I knew that because I’m sitting there and I keep hearing this, I said, okay, I’ll do a little workshop. And I did that and I called it How to Connect to Your Higher Self. And I had all these folks there and I’m just talking about it. I said, I don’t know what’s going to happen because I never know. And it was probably one of the best sessions because they could see me and I didn’t know what I was going to do, but I would deliver Wilhelm information and then people would ask questions or say something and I would answer. And then there were times where I would come out of the trance and I talked to them about this. I said, I’ll come out and I’ll kind of still have Wilhelm, but I can probably answer. But then what was happening is that somebody would answer a question and I’m trying to answer it as Roger, I couldn’t do it. And then they see me. I said, Wait a minute, okay, let me get let me go to Wilhelm. And then it was all very clear. And that’s what happens when I when I channel. It’s just so incredibly clear. But it’s only I mean, it’s when I’m in those those states. So but then the funny thing was, I didn’t have anyone with me that day. My, my my associate wasn’t available. He was ill that day.And so he usually takes care of the technical stuff because I’m terrible with all of that. And so I forgot about it. Last week. I’m hearing very clearly again. Fine. Please go and find that session, please. I’m like, What? I don’t know what? I’m sitting there going through my phone. What? What? What am I supposed to find? And I find this session from May of 2021 that had never been downloaded. It was still sitting in my Zoom account. I never put it downloaded. I never put it into a video because I can hide things that way. And I was like, Oh wow. And it it kept going on. I said, and I kept saying, I can no longer do this. I kept I’ve got to step forward because I know they were telling me very clearly, the thing that happens is so strange. Because I said we gave you information that’s going to correspond to certain days. You know, even though we don’t operate in linear time, you do. And so we give you things so you can keep track and certain things. Some of the message they said, we’ll give you more tomorrow. Why? They said, because you don’t accept so much. You only accept so much in your human brain at a time. And so it doesn’t make any sense. And most of you want to know where you’re going instead of enjoying the journey.

Jean Trebek: Right. That’s true.

Roger Burnley: And that’s been and that’s the difficulty. And so then yesterday, I had a thought, okay, I’m going to I think I need to talk about this in a different way. I’m going to do a workshop and I’m going to call it, um, How to Thrive during the Big Shift. That’s what I thought. But then I was doubting. I said, Should I really do that? Maybe. Should I really go there? And then the next that day, look at the message that was coming up from 2012 and it said, Do it anyway. Just do it. It’s talking about – we all have these ideas and then we wait and then we have the fear. We allow the ego to take over so we don’t move. And the thing that was so striking was so challenging for me was like, really every day they’re giving me a message that we could follow. Then they said, Yes, it’s an ascension guide because that’s what you’re doing. Your planet is ascending. And so then you each are playing a role in how much you decide to send yourself meaning, owning and understanding your life journey. Everyone alive is contributing to the formation of the world. That was the funniest message. They said, um, this was in 2020. They said, you, um, something like, you are responsible for the formation of your world or something like that and said if you had any difficulty believing that sentence, then you’ve uncovered the difficulties you’ve experienced in your life.

Alison Martin: Oh, yes.

Roger Burnley: Not understanding how our essence is forming, what is going on in our world, and we all take responsibility instead of passing it on to everyone else. Then they said, you’re going to see a lot of blame going on during this time.

Roger Burnley: They they made me sit down one day and write. They showed me all the messages they gave me during that time in 2012, just focused on blame because what’s going to happen, you’re going to see all these things happening in your world and everyone’s going to blame everyone else for why it’s occurring, rather than you taking responsibility and owning and bringing something new into the world.

Alison Martin: That’s amazing. Because that is happening right now. Every day in politics and in society.

Roger Burnley: It really sabotaged me. It’s so much easier now because, see, for three years I’m writing things and putting it out there and I thought nobody nobody’s hearing me, nobody’s understanding me. There was one message that said, as you’re moving through this, and they explained why the United States they said the United States will lead the way in this restructuring. And during that, we’re going to go through things where we’re going to see things that have been covered up, that have been not for the best, not for the good of all. And so and that’s going to be a little chaotic. And that’s what we’re seeing right now.

Jean Trebek: Yes, right.

Roger Burnley: Then they said… you might have to you might bring in another leader like a Hitler. Wow in 2020 or have a war we hadn’t had. The Ukraine hadn’t started yet. And so I’m saying these things and people are looking at me like, why are you talking about this?

Roger Burnley: This is what’s coming through. So after I did all of this, I said, I have to see if this works. So I did something else in December of 2021, I said, let me put this work together and take some of it and put it together. I created this one program called Four Weeks to Your Best Life and put a bunch of people in there and I gave them a message, you know, And I did just a short video, and I said here – this is what I got from the message. Now you answer the questions and let’s see what happens. Then we were going to have group meetings, weekly meetings, you know, and I said, okay, the first one that came up, I, I didn’t they had assignments. They had to do the assignments each day and submit them. I said, I’m not going to read them because I would be doubting myself if I was doing that. So I said, I’m not going to do that. So the night before the first meeting that we were going to have, I said, I have to look because I got to know what’s going on. And so I looked and it was the most shocking thing to me. I stayed up all night because I was seeing them getting in touch with things and understanding things that took me decades to come to or to admit or to acknowledge. You know, it was just weird. And so and then the next morning, we had this early meeting and I overslept, but I got them back.

Roger Burnley: I told them, this is a good thing. I said, I just want to tell you why that happened. Because you blew me away and I wanted them to understand. But then they explained, Well, this is how evolution works. We’re all coming in to learn something and get and develop something, gain more wisdom, and then we give it back to others. That’s how the world evolves. And so and so we want to make the way for others much easier than what we might have had, no matter what we’ve done or where we’ve lived. That is the goal of any human – we want it to be that, right? But this period – they said it’s going to be a little challenging because you’re creating something big. And then the other weird thing it says, now think of it, this is the greatest opportunity of your life, of this, of your incarnation. You’re all living at a time where your planet is changing. This is a planetary ascension. And so if you do what you’re meant to do, then eventually – it’s not going to be tomorrow – but eventually it turns out so much better. And then I started looking at and I started hearing other people because I was listening to some astrologers, because I needed to get some other verification, you know, because I would just receive stuff. And then there were several people who gave me verification. Uh. Bruce Lipton was one of them. When would listen to him go, okay, great. Oh, and I saw that you guys had Eben Alexander on. I just sent him. Oh, you see? You’ll see. I mentioned him in the book.

Jean Trebek: Yes, you did? Yes. Yeah.

Roger Burnley: So I just mailed him a book a while ago, too, because I wanted to thank him and also Anita Moorjani, because they were speaking about things that gave me more courage, talking about these other realms that we can experience. Even though I’d known that I was doing this through everything, you know, that I had gone through, but still that ownership is what we all that’s the thing… the difficulty. They said, you’re always going to have that. You’re always going to doubt yourself. Yeah, people, in some of the in the some of the sessions, people ask when will the doubt go away? And Wilhelm says, Never.

Alison Martin: Right? Yeah.

Jean Trebek: And it’s great to just admit it.

Roger Burnley: Yes.

Jean Trebek: Be up front. Oh, I’m feeling a little uneasy right now. I think that kind of exposes that and then you have nothing to really hide behind and you can shine your light when you just go, Wow, I still feel nervous talking in front of people, but here I am.

Roger Burnley: That’s what it is. They explained this in one of the channeling sessions. They said, because I never talked about my spirituality, I never talked about anything like that. I was doing all these other things. I had a business, I was doing everything else I was doing. But I couldn’t do this part. And they said, Well, that was purposeful because they said Roger had to get over his ego. He had to move beyond his ego. And if anything he had done before would have been for some sort of selfish reason. Now he has the experience that he can give to others. I never, ever thought about doing work like this where I was going to earn money from it. It was never that. I didn’t even allow people to see the messages that I was writing every day until 2007 or something like that, because they were I thought they were just for me, they’re healing me. They’re helping me. But I didn’t know it was supposed to be for anyone else. And the only way that it happened was that someone came into my office one day and saw one of the messages I had just lying on my desk, picked it up and read it and goes, Wow, this really helped me. Who did it? Who wrote it? And I said – Oh, okay. Yeah, that came through me. I do them every day. And they said, Oh, could you please send them to me now? All I had was my AOL account. That’s what I had then. And so I had a little email. I said, okay, fine. So then I created a little group email. That’s all it was. And then I would just send people who were in the group these messages each day. Then later on I met someone. I was leaving this other business and I met Kathy Eldon. Well, I was actually referred to Kathy Eldon. She created she started Creative Visions, which was this wonderful organization. And, um, but I was trying to save this other business that I had done. This was right at the Great Recession we all went through. I lost everything, lost everything I owned. And I’m trying to save this business. Somebody said, well, you should talk to Kathy. She knows everybody in Hollywood. And so I never heard from her until after I had closed the business. It was just a craziness. And then she calls and we started talking and I told her what I did and she said, Oh. And then she started getting interested in the messages. And I said, okay. Well, I put her on the list as well. Years later, she tells me that those messages helped her, helped her staff because she said every morning the staff, when they were creating this, it was really challenging and difficult for them. But they would read the Wilhelm messages every day and it helped them create this business. And so then she introduced me to her book agent because she thought maybe this should be a book. And I still at that time I wasn’t interested in that. And when I talked to the guy and we met and we were going to do something and I was too focused on my other business and I wasn’t really thinking about it. It wasn’t until recently that I went back and noticed that the time that he was responding and telling me this was during 2012.

Alison Martin: That’s amazing. You’ve gone through so much. Um, the ice story is so frightening.

Jean Trebek: And that happened to Alex, my husband.

Alison Martin: Yes. And and that was so frightening. And when you talk about your feet and you’ve been through so much and yet I got such a warm, jubilant feeling from the book – which you totally are. So can you talk a little bit about how you maintained this positive outlook or did that shift?

Roger Burnley: It was exactly the way that they want me to give information to others every day. What would happen is I first started doing automatic writing, That’s how it began. And that was 1988. And I only did that because I read an article about it. It wasn’t anything I thought I could do. Um, there were other things that I’d been exposed to before, so I wasn’t totally a novice. And there was something, but I didn’t want to be in the spiritual community. I wasn’t going to do all of this, you know. And so I read a business magazine. This is what gave me the clue because this guy said he was in New York, I believe, and he had was having difficulty with his business. He had or was starting a new business. And so he started doing this automatic writing and he said it gave him great results. And he just talked about what he did. He meditated, just sat there and just wrote something and see what came through and said, okay, well, I’ve been meditating a bit. Let me see if that works. And so I started for several days. I would sit there and have my pen and paper and see what would happen.

Roger Burnley: Nothing came through. And then one day it just felt like something grabbed my hand and I started writing. I was hearing very clearly and I just started writing. And it frightened me, actually. And I said, Who’s speaking to me? And I heard, this is your higher self, another part of you. But if that makes you uncomfortable, you can call us whatever you like. That’s okay. And then I said, Wilhelm – didn’t know why that name came through until years later because it was connected to so many others. But I had no conscious memory of that. And so all of this stuff I had to get, it was just so much that was coming through. In 2021, I had to Akashic Records readings done because I had never done that before either. But I said, Am I really? Maybe I’m just a nuts person because I need to find that out. And they said no. And this was the last lady that I went to. The first woman that I saw, she was like, wait a minute… She stopped after she was done with the reading. She said, I think I’m supposed to be following you or something.

Alison Martin: Wow.

Roger Burnley: And then the next one, who I knew because we were in this other organization together, she did it and she verified everything. She says, Oh, yeah, you have this ancient memory back to Egypt. And then you used to mummify people, but now you’re supposed to open up the minds of people. And you were given something. And she started saying and she paused and she goes, operate. And I just lost it in that second because, see, what I heard was that I was given this philosophy called your life operating instructions.

Jean Trebek: Oh!

Roger Burnley: And that just blew me away when she said that. And I go, okay, this makes sense. And then after more would come out when I do a live session, a channeling session, then more of that information would start to come through. But the point was that every time we come unto the earth plane at a particular time incarnation to fulfill a mission within our own lives, within our own evolutionary journey, but then to contribute to the world in the same way. And it’s not accidental. We choose the times. And we all decided to be here now because we could make a much better world if we decide to own who we are.

Jean Trebek: Yes. Own who we are. Does Willem give any advice as to how to connect to our divine self?

Roger Burnley: Yes. I mean, that’s what came through. That one session was so crazy because I did finally put it out and share it and because it was different than all the others. When I do the sessions now, I kind of have a message there and all that. And but this one, it was just everybody there and that’s when they were asking questions. But now what I do is I, I recently I changed it because I used to have people speak and all of that. Now they said, No, we don’t want you to do that. We don’t want you to hear anyone. We just want you to connect to the energy. And so what we do now is that they will submit questions during the session and then my associate Stan, will read the question. Because I don’t want to know if it’s male or female or who they are or anything. I just want to connect to their essence and their soul and that’s what we’ve been doing. And so, yes, the advice comes through in those. And the main one that people used to come through is – I don’t know what self-love is, I don’t know how to do that. And then Willem said, Yeah, all you have to do is pay attention when you’re using judgment.

Jean Trebek: Great answer.

Alison Martin: That is great.

Jean Trebek: Yeah.

Roger Burnley: Yeah. And so when you can just acknowledge that and it’s a mindfulness thing and it happens because again, they said this is the generational change that we’re moving through. And, and so this was the other one… because I don’t remember the things that come through. Martin Luther King had the March on Washington in 1963. And so they were doing a celebration on Saturday, this past Saturday. And so I said, oh, wow, that’s fascinating. And I went back and I looked I said, What’s the real date? And the real date was August 28th of 1963. And so I said, Well, let me see what came through then. And they took me back to 2020 when they first started giving me the information about what we would be experiencing now. And the message was, you are right, and so are they. Hmm. And I thought, oh, this is what we’re going to have to deal with. Because, see, we’re coming in as humans and these spirits, these bodies. But we have different ideologies, we have different races, genders and all of that. And so we’re going to form different opinions about what that is. But we’re each supposed to create our own reality. And that reality that takes us back to remembering that we’re connected to source, that we’re connected to, all that is over time. Then we start to have a very different world. But you’re moving through this process now, this ascension process. But they’ve also said that it’s going to be much better by 2025. We’ve got to go through this next year. And the energetic changes are going to keep going. The other thing that would come through and I got so nervous because this would happen at the end of certain calls, the last thing they would say, please stop burning down your planet.

Jean Trebek: Oh.

Alison Martin: Oh, yeah.

Roger Burnley: And I that that was crazy. And then they took me back the other day. They said when Maui, when the fires in Maui happened and said you’re not even paying attention to the dates. Like what? And then I looked back to see the date that Maui became a US state, the same date that the fires were happening, really. And so, yes, it’s like, look at this is a restructuring. You are going through cycles, you’ve gone through cycles in civilization before. They kept taking me back. Look at what happened 200 years ago. You know, you can’t remember all the things that from centuries, but you can think about 100 years if you had to and they started talking about showing the things that happened during the pandemic, because we had one in 1918. This is just a very different period that no one has experienced because this has never happened on planet Earth. These configurations of what’s going on right now.

Jean Trebek: I love the numerology.

Alison Martin: Yeah. Yes.

Jean Trebek: Going beyond it shows that the universe is reflecting an intellectual calculation that’s beyond our human perception. But there’s this intelligence that is operating.

Roger Burnley: Said you you cannot you’re not going to be able to think logically.

Jean Trebek: That’s just trust your heart, because your brain is not going to help you out.

Roger Burnley: Oh, I got chills again. Okay. Yeah. In 1987. I have no clue as to why I was guided to do certain things. But in 1987, I wrote two songs that I just did myself, and the first one was called Better Than Me. And the idea behind the song was to say, No one is better than you and you are not better than anyone else. You’re all equal. But you have to come to that understanding. And then the second song was Listen to Your Heart.

Alison Martin: Wow.

Roger Burnley: Didn’t know why, but it was like, Listen to your heart and you’ll always know the right way. That guidance that what’s within us, but trusting that is challenging. We’re going through an evolutionary path ourselves. And so, Oh, am I supposed to move to this place now or am I supposed to do that? And so that’s the thing that is challenging. And what they kept giving me, especially about Russia, that was one of them. Um, because we were so afraid of that. But you have to understand the energies of that because you have someone who is trying to recreate what was old.

Alison Martin: Right.

Roger Burnley: An old empire and old things that’s no longer going to work. Right. Which is why it didn’t. It hasn’t, you know, except for, you know, killing a lot of people. That’s what’s gone on. However, if we can keep moving in the direction of self-love and giving up our judgment and all of that, we move energetically to that new world that we’re all trying to create.

Alison Martin: In your book, I felt so much that Wilhelm and you – I really felt it was two different voices, which was so interesting to read. And that Wilhelm really has no judgment,

Roger Burnley: Right.

Alison Martin: It’s all about everything happens and it’s for expansion and growth.

Roger Burnley: Right.

Alison Martin: And I love when you’d be like, I couldn’t believe that! I felt so sided with you because immediately when you’re talking, I want to say. So when does it get better? When does it as if, like I have to remember to let go of the idea of better. or worse.

Roger Burnley: Well, no, they said no. Better is Good. Because better is how we feel. See, it’s going to be different for everyone. But they said when you know what better means for you on your path, then that’s what you go to, what feels better to you. And that’s that because they said you’re not going to be able to judge everyone else, you’re not going to understand that. But you do know what feels better for you in your life and in your experience. Go for that because that’s your divine plan. That’s your individual blueprint basically is what would come through. Right?

Jean Trebek: That’s your guidance system.

Alison Martin: That’s right. Can we talk just a little bit about the idea of illness and healing yourself. We’re in a spiritual group of women that talk and this always seems to come up that somehow if you have something and you can’t cure yourself. You’ve been defeated or you’ve had bad thoughts.

Roger Burnley: I’m so glad you brought that up. Oh, I struggled with that one forever because the contradiction that existed in my life. I grew up in my family. My mother and my grandmother were Christian scientists. And my grandmother was devout. I never saw the woman sick. She I think one day she was in bed with a cold or something like that. And but that was all that I ever remembered. And I had every illness, every disease, every kind of crazy so many throughout my life. And I said to her one day, why am I having this is something wrong? And she said, And I understand it now. She says, You work to the level of your understanding. Because, see, we could get to the place in what when we want, where we could heal things… That is possible. We all have that. However, we have different evolutionary paths that we’re supposed to move through. So just because you don’t. Oh, there’s a wonderful message they said – you have a physical ailment and so you think that the resolution of the malady is your healing. It it may not be in physical form. That has nothing to do with it. The healing always occurs in the spiritual realm. And so when we keep looking at the physical things to completely change, that maybe it”s not going to happen depending on our paths of what we were supposed to do. So we can’t judge ourselves if we can’t get there because I was judging myself like the women might have been doing. They said, No, it’s not that… You use your physical bodies to understand your spiritual path, to understand your spiritual evolution. These are just bodies you use, you know. I didn’t talk about it for so long, this is really because I’m going to do more of it now, um, because of all the things that I’ve healed in my life, that I’ve moved through – I didn’t want to talk about them. I would go to my doctor and he would say, Wow, you’ve really done something great here. Look at your test results are so much better, I’d say – don’t tell anybody.

Alison Martin: Really?

Roger Burnley: Because it felt like, I’m going to have to explain it. I’m going to have to defend it. I don’t. And it didn’t make sense. I just knew that it was happening. And then I started changing and I started talking about it more. And it came through actually in the channeling session because my Wilhelm said that Roger will do. He’ll go to the doctor, he’ll have his blood work done, and he looks at his blood work and he measures the things. If anything’s off he goes. He’ll ask himself, Oh, what am I not doing? What am I not changed? What do I need to adjust? Right? Because it was spiritual, it was a connecting that way, you know, And some people will won’t, you know, don’t use that at all. But that’s what I began doing. And I was getting the results I was healing and they keep having me talk about my age because they said we want people to understand that you can start when you get this stuff. You start reverse aging. You know, it’s every time because I’ll be 73 in November.

Jean Trebek: Wow.

Alison Martin: You look great, Roger.

Roger Burnley: Thank you. And that’s, you know, part of the genes or whatever. But still, I do know that it is something that I was surprised with because the healing just kept coming, especially all of last week. So a couple of weeks ago and I talked about this in the group, I went in my cabinet, my bathroom underneath, and I had this  bin with all these medications, all these things like, I mean, just every kind of thing. There were just and I looked at it, I go, oh, I haven’t been in there in forever. But we can’t measure our progress based on the results that we might receive physically, our healing is occurring in the spiritual realm.

Alison Martin: So I love that you say that. And I love what you said about we use our physical bodies to gain knowledge and expansion in a spiritual sense, because that reflects back to what you said about your feelings. Like if it feels good, go… Do you know? And I think that’s such a wonderful thing because you don’t really hear that a lot. You what I’ve heard is different, like what you said about maybe I have failed in something.

Roger Burnley: And the other thing, too, I have something that’s hanging on my wall. This came through in the 80s and it was about the our emotions, see, because the other things that we will interpret our emotions based on what we’ve been programmed to believe or think from whatever. And so this one message and someone made a little calligraphy of it for me, said, Your emotions are not an end of themselves. They are designed to lead you to your beliefs. Your beliefs may or may not be based in truth.

Alison Martin: Wow.

Jean Trebek: That’s great. That’s great.

Roger Burnley: And I said, Oh, okay. And then I was going to a therapist one time and she said to me, I think you have repressed anger. I said that’s not possible. I’m too nice. I couldn’t have anger… And then it was true. And I started to see and I could go back and even pinpoint the incident where I started repressing whatever might come up from me that might feel like anger. And I’ve always been the person who had to keep the peace no matter what. But there was one incident when I was a child, um, and my cousin was teasing me all the time. And then I lost it. I just lost it. And I grabbed him and I’m banging his head against a tree. And it frightened me because I had so much anger. I mean, I was still a kid, but still I said, okay, I’m never going to do that again. And so now I’m starting to repress my feeling of wanting to protect myself, of wanting to speak up and own who I am. And that becomes that permeates your life. Then, you know, of course, we don’t want to express anger at others. But when it comes up, sometimes it gets us to pay attention to something within us that we’ve been ignoring. And that’s what it was. Did it make it worse? This cousin was three years younger than me. Um, a couple of years ago he unexpectedly died. And I went back to that incident and I had all this guilt. I still had the guilt about, Oh, wow. Because he’s gone now. I can’t even say anything. Can’t even talk about this. Yeah, they said it doesn’t matter. You can’t. You’re not controlling anyone else’s experience. It’s just yours. And so just take what we gain from the experience, learn from it, gather wisdom and give it to others. And we keep evolving.

Alison Martin: Right. That’s beautiful. Do you think we’re responsible for others or do you think we’re solely responsible to ourselves? What is responsibility to you?

Roger Burnley: Responsibility… they say it’s this higher state that we’re all moving to. And we haven’t gotten there because, see, when we become responsible, we remember our oneness. We remember that we are all one. But as we’re moving through our individual incarnations in life and all of that, we don’t know that it’s coming…it’s remembering. This is the thing that used to really drive me crazy when some of the earlier messages I receive – You knew before you came, you knew this. I said I didn’t know anything. That’s what I would always say. They said – You will remember. That would start coming through. We remember because we’re eternal beings. So we have history, we have memories and all of that and did some other things because I thought, this is so strange. Uh, I started getting in touch with Carl Jung. I never studied anyone. I never studied anybody. But I started seeing that all of my ideas, I mean, some of the stuff the Wilhelm messages felt like they were so relatable to Carl Jung. And then through one of the sessions, Wilhelm said, Well, yes, we gave you all of that. As humans, you come into the world, you develop something and it’s in the ethers, it’s in the infinite intelligence. You all have access to it. You’re not going to necessarily access the same information, but it’s all there. And I said, Well. What we gave you was, yes, Carl Jung. We also gave you Alfred Adler, we gave you Einstein, we gave you all these people, because that’s the available information. And then they said, if you go back and look when they came into the world, what they discovered and what they left, then you’re supposed to take it and develop something and give it to others. So, oh, okay. Now that makes sense. The one thing that I didn’t understand this came through in one of the sessions they brought in. Alfred Adler. I knew nothing about him, but he talked about inferiority because that’s our difficulty. We have this feeling of inferiority, of insignificance. And so if that permeates our being, then we give it to others. And then we have a whole bunch of people on the planet who feel insignificant, right? And so this period is about uplifting and up leveling consciousness so more people feel significant and more people feel included. And then we can create something a lot better, right?

Alison Martin: Well, I think that’s so true, because the big expression now between everyone sees I want to feel seen, right? You know, I want to be heard. I want to feel seen. It’s such a simple sentence. And it’s so moving to me because it really captures that feeling of feeling insignificant or significant.

Roger Burnley: They give me little things like use iterations. They said okay when you come to understand this about yourself and all others, you’re going to have a very different world… They said everyone is looking fr the same thing. I said, What is that? They said acceptance, acknowledgement and approval.

Jean Trebek: Right.

Roger Burnley: Every, every single soul wants that. And so when we can give that first to ourselves, then we start to be able to give more to others. And over time we start to see, Oh, wait a minute, we’re creating a different kind of consciousness. We’re understanding the importance of all people. We’re understanding that every soul that comes onto the plane has something to offer, no matter what that experience might be or how it looks, you know, right there would they would bring up things to I use this because Tony Robbins used this so much and it’s such a great example. He used Nick Vukovich. I don’t know if you know of him. He’s this guy. He’s a motivational speaker. He has no arms or legs and he’s.

Jean Trebek: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And he got married.

Roger Burnley: Yes, yes, yes. Kids, he got everything.

Jean Trebek: He’s has a nice looking face, but no hands or legs and if I remember him… Is he Christian?

Roger Burnley: Yes, he is. But it’s so challenging. You can’t watch him without coming away with feeling better about yourself in some way because he makes you do it! And he’s funny. He’s funny too.

Roger Burnley: When you were saying about me being so up, I used to judge myself for that because I would do a channeling session. And Wilhelm was very funny when they’re doing channeling sessions and they said, We’re going to keep things up because many of you have suffered too much. You don’t need to do that. We’re going to start to shift the energy a little bit. And so I started saying, okay, because someone will ask this really serious life or death kind of question. Wilhelm will laugh and it breaks the energy. And then they get the information. It’s what typically happens.

Alison Martin: And that’s very much like a Course in Miracles, right? You know, don’t forget to laugh.

Roger Burnley: Yes, I did the course. I was working for a guy and he knew Marianne Williamson and she was doing lectures on A Course in Miracles, and I would go every single week and listen to that and started to became friendly with her and her associate and all of that. I said, okay, maybe I should do the course. And so I did the course. I did 365 days. And it was so odd because I said, This makes sense to me. Why do I understand this and why is it coming through? But I still was not going to take that next step into owning this and talking about it. I just said it seems familiar. And I could understand the actual lessons, you know, pretty easily. I still never thought this was anything that I was going to do. That was 1986. And if I could tell you all the different careers that came up that I did, like I told people to in several years ago, I said I sold my million dollar business, which was true.

Jean Trebek: Wow.

Roger Burnley: I was doing this singing business and I’d been doing it for years. And I had a partner in Australia and he brought it up. He says, I think you’re maybe you’re supposed to be doing personal development because he could see how I was working with people and what was coming through. And I said, okay, I’ll do that, but I’m not going to do anything that’s really weird. I’m not going to do anything really woo-woo or something strange. I said that to him. And so then a couple of years later I said, okay. I can’t do this anymore. I have to move to this other place. And that’s when I the urging just kept coming through, you know? Um, but I had this self-judgment that people are going to look at me weird if I’m doing this. Plus, I’m a black guy and I’m going to sit down and talk about this and I’m going to start doing channeling. That doesn’t make sense.

Jean Trebek: Well.

Alison Martin: It does.

Jean Trebek: Yeah, it does.

Alison Martin: It does make sense. Actually.

Jean Trebek: You’re the perfect channel for such great wisdom.

Alison Martin: You’re fascinating. And I just. I just loved you. And I love you even more now. But this. I really hope that all our listeners read-

Roger Burnley: Thank you.

Jean Trebek: Overcoming Fear A Guide to Freedom by Roger Burnley.

Roger Burnley: I still laugh at the preface, though. When I talked, I said, yeah, I wanted to write it for a long time. I just have one problem. Fear!

Jean Trebek: Thank you for this great gift and thank.

Alison Martin: And thank you for talking with us this long.

Roger Burnley: Thank you. Listen, I loved it so much and I love what you’re doing. And I love I love your interviews. And yeah, the last one I listened to was the one with Eben and it was just really great. So thank you.

Alison Martin: Hope our our paths cross again with you. If you write another book, please come back on. We would love that.

Roger Burnley: Well, thank you so much.

Jean Trebek: Have a great day.

Roger Burnley: Thank you. You too. Okay. Bye bye.

Alison Martin: So there he is. First of all, he made me laugh. He is such a happy guy.

Jean Trebek: You know, I think when you start really living without fear, you become more happy.

Alison Martin: And I love some of the things he said about self love and finding what’s better for you and that it makes sense that right now we’re living through a challenging time because there’s a lot of changes happening and a lot of awareness, right?

Jean Trebek: Yeah. And I think the thing to remember is not to judge when the awareness comes up. Like we can have an awareness of something and then we judge ourselves for that. It’s almost like be grateful. Like, wow, I just became aware that I have this trigger point or, Hey, I just realized something about myself. And rather than beating ourselves up, it’s like, Hey, good on you. This is something you’re waking up from.

Alison Martin: I think I do that. I think for me, I’ll think of something that and I’ll go, Ughh…

Jean Trebek: Why do I do that?

Alison Martin: I don’t know that I would ever say that to you. I don’t think I would ever say to you, Jean, what are you doing?

Jean Trebek: Like, why are you still dealing with that, right?

Alison Martin: I really feel like after talking to Roger, I was like, oh, you’re right. The fear is just my mental thoughts and I can adjust those to achieve expansion and knowledge.

Jean Trebek: Yeah. It’s a great book. Please treat yourself!

Alison Martin: Overcoming Fear. Roger Burnley.

Jean Trebek: Okay. Well, it was lovely sitting with you again this afternoon.

Alison Martin: Have a great couple of weeks and we’ll see you next time.

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